[TT] Kaspersky says Apple is 10 years behind Microsoft in terms of security - Page 12  

Safe computing means "walled off garden where we think for you, so you don't have to... Because you're an idiot, and you'll break things... "

Which, sadly, I think is kind of true for a lot of people out there. No wonder they have massive profit margins. =s

Also, you have scary amounts of fanaticism when it comes to Apple... You really do sound like a drone. Just an FYI...
Edited by Nicnivian - 4/27/12 at 1:20am

'Safe computing means 'walled off garden', but not the rest of what you said. Just because a user isn't technologically literate doesn't mean they're an idiot, it just means they don't know what they're doing. You know, it's best to keep those things to yourself because it's somewhat offensive, I'm no fanatic, and nor am I a drone. I like Apple products, and I happen to like Android 4 and WinMo 7+ as well.

You aren't paying for the hardware. You're paying for their support, which is some of the best out there. As in, you walk into an Apple store, if they can't fix it on spot or in a reasonable amount of time, you'll normally walk out with a brand new one. When you build a laptop or another computer to match, price normally isn't THAT much higher than HP/Dells prices. ( yes you have to compare prebuilt, with prebuilt, you can't compare it to self built as that's obviously cheaper since you aren't paying for them to build it for you. ) Then the extra money can basically be thought of as an inssurance plan. As you normally get 3? years to start, where you can dang near run over the thing with a tank and they'd still replace it if it was still under warranty.

Just like with RHEL. It's free. But you pay anywhere from $350 to $8,600 each year for support depending on your subscription.

I don't like apple's philosophy of closed source.


Their OS is fine but to claim its free of viruses and malware borders on insanity. However after being correctly informed that it is, indeed, unix certified operating system they went a long way forward in my book.

What hurts them most with users like me is the legacy software that I can never use on their operating system. I'd have to download a 3rd party program (emulator) that probably wont work half the time and its a lot of trouble.

Lots of MAC users are NEW users to technology. They don't have to deal with this issue so its an easy choice. The other problem I have is price. I know the hardware. I'm not paying 1500 bucks for an operating system thats just outrageous.

AS FAR AS YOU! Even though your posts are mostly rational and calm (in tone) I have to say the tendency to see you as a blind defender of all things apple does bleed through. If I ever see an apple thread you havent posted in my first comment will be inb4 steelbom says its alright. But MORE POWER TO YOU. there should always be 2 or 3 sides to every argument at least! Because when everyone agrees everyone tends to be WRONG!

If you want legacy support you can always add it in. The kernel for OSX is open and can be modified and compiled by anyone, how do you think we got AMD support? One of the devs leaked the AMD source files and we kept building the kernel sources when they were released. In all honesty OSX is AMAZING, Apple just rips you off as a consumer for their "support".

@Shrak: And to compare them to OEM is just wrong, you pay roughly twice what you would with Apple. Twice, which is god awful. At that price range, you could take an Alienware for 2k and have 2x the power. Unless you require a warranty that lets you drop it intentionally then Apple is just using you.

How do you think they own so little of the market and are worth so much? It's not because we all buy Apple, it's because what they charge you for what you get is so outrageous. The best part is, people don't even know or care. It's the same concept as monster cables, your plainly getting ripped off.

[edit] The math for ya. A top end laptop from something like Alienware costs 2-2.5k no? That's pretty up there, while a Mac cost 3.5K. That's a 1k difference for a 3 year warranty. Generally most companies offer a 1year manufacturer warranty, yes it sucks but it's still there. So now your paying 1k for a 2 year warranty (as manufacturers warranty should always cover the first year). That's 500 a trip if you go once a year to get things fixed. That's 250 a trip if you go twice a year, 125 if you go 4 times.

Do you go 4 times a year to fix a laptop? Do you even spend 125 to get a laptop fixed? I wouldn't. This is top notch too, while you can easily get other brand OEM laptops that carry the same performance minus the dedicated GPU, even then a dedicated one can run you much much less than Alienware.

So is a 1.5k 2 (technically 3) year warranty for a consumer worth it? For an industry it could be, if you use stuff like pro-tools or something that requires you to use mac. The problem is the majority of users don't, and can't. So they pay 500-1k more in computer parts just for a 3 year warranty that they won't ever use for that price. You can get a good laptop for 1.5k, much better than you would get spending 1.5k on an apple laptop.

This is high end, where it shows you the real gouging.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&sku=827998&is=REG&A=details&Q=

Asus@2k, beats the crap out of what they have on the mac line for 2k. Really, it rivals their 3.5k crap too. It really sands out once you do price comparisons all around, then you start to realize they mark up things 25% or more from retail all for your warranty. At 3k 25% is 750, and that's assuming the macbook is really worth 3k hardware wise and that isn't already a markup. Honestly, their pricing is so outrageous I can't believe people stick up for it.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/27/12 at 12:44pm

I don't know why so much Apple hate. What I would challenge people to do it find a notebook/ultrabook that is similarly priced that offers the same thing as far as specs, size, battery life, and a 16:10 (1200x800,1440x900,1680x1050,or 1920x1200 high DPI screen).

And normal OEM's have little to no support/warranty. I know Dell's support sucks and their warranties are crap as well. Sure they replaced my Latitude, but I ended up getting another used one that was in much worse condition than the one I sent in. Ended up sending it back as well and after 3 months and sending back/waiting for a laptop 4 times, I finally got them to get me a new one ( or at least it looked new and was in great condition like the one I sent in ). Whereas when I had an issue with my MacBook, I walked out with a new one that day, and have done so twice so far and once for my phone.

I know for a fact that HP's support sucks as well. And Panasonics isn't worth it either. So to pay a little extra for a premium to have service where I'm not out of a computer for weeks or in my case months on end, no problem by me.

And price really depends. My Latitude was $800 and is only marginally better than a base line 13" MacBook Pro ($1200 from the Apple site atm, I got mine for $1,050). Two major differences though. It's cheap plastic and partially flexible in one area but can be a pain, and the screen hinges could be better. MacBook Pro's solid aluminium body, makes it feels completely solid and not an inch of flex or looseness in the screen either.

So I paid $250 more for my MacBook Pro, got a much sturdier and more solid laptop. Also got a really nice screen on it, slotload drive which I love ( yes I could buy one for my Latitude but I cba to ), and amazing service. You can say what you want about Apple and their devices, I'm proud to have mine. Am I a fanboy? No. But I do enjoy my Apple product. ( even though I boot it into Gentoo and not OSX, but that's beside the point )

And you paid 800 for a laptop, I wouldn't expect anything much above 500. Given that it's 300 more, that really isn't much. You can go to Wally world or BB and get a cheaper laptop, grab one of their warranties which don't suck and you still get a covered laptop well under what Apple charges. Why didn't you use a retailer that offered a cheap 2yr warranty? Why didn't you look around?

I understand the metal case, but honestly most major computer parts are covered in metal. When you drop those, does it save them? it'll save the small stuff, but generally once you drop a laptop enough to severely break something you are going to severely break something (screen, hdd, MB).

Drop a MAC off a desk and drop a regular laptop, which one breaks beyond usability? Generally both as the screen will go out first then the HDD, so your back to the OEM/Apple store at that point anyways. Drop water on it? Dead, close the screen enough to bend the plastic? Dead. Unless they have some real nice stuff inside to make sure that the inside doesn't move, that metal is just there for minor nicks and dings.

[edit] hard cases also cause a higher chance of failure in other parts, considering the metal won't absorb as much kinetic energy as a plastic case (shattering expels more energy than metal bending). This causes higher risk of HDD failure, due to the heads being extremely sensitive. You want data security or a less damaged laptop? Choices.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/27/12 at 1:23pm

I did look around, and the bestbuys around here will gouge you out of house and home with their prices . No other local retail shops left, a few local repair shops but other than that, it's either bestbuy, or a 5 hour trip to the nearest Microcenter, or 4 hour trip to Fry's, and possibly craigslist if I had gotten really desparate. Circuit City's are gone, CompUSA's are gone ( well I think there may be one left around here but I haven't seen it in a while ). So not much of a choice there. And I could of gotten a cheaper laptop, but the last $500 or less laptop I had ( an HP and a Lenovo ), were both crap in quality and I could nearly snap them in half with my bare hands. That's one reason I like the full metal 1 piece body, absolutely no flex or give at all.

And if the screen does break in your example, it's a 15 minute trip to the Apple store at the mall, and maybe a 10 minute wait till I have a new screen, or a new laptop altogether in my hands and out the door. OEM would require me to ship it off to them ( minimum 3 days to get to most, and the end user normally pays shpping, so out say $20 in shipping in most cases for shipping ), then god knows when they 'get around to it', it could sit there in a box for a week or more before they finally get around to actually shipping it off, then add another 3 day minimum shipping time. And I wasn't just being theoritcal in my last post about waiting 3 months, it actually took that long after all was said and done and all the laptops they sent me got sent back until I got something that was acceptable.

I understand you have a unique situation, cause around here we have a crap ton of places within 30 min. We even had a huge mall 45 min away, with the only reason why it's in it's location is because it is a high traffic route for the interstate/highway. So it's a mall in the middle of nowhere... lol I know, weird things.

Though why couldn't you get a newegg warranty? Amazon (do they have one)? Retail outlets are almost gone, that's why BB is almost gone. We use the Internet now, we order online for cheap. You can get a 1k laptop with a 2year extended warranty from newegg, as well as other places. These are good laptops, with a site that has an amazing rep. I've seen them skimp on shipping but I can't imagine the amount of orders their warehouse has to fill in a day. I've done warehouse work, you can't imagine how crazy and hectic it is unless you work it. With that consumer base, I'm surprised they don't get overwhelmed more.

Your metal body doesn't flex or give but that's the problem. It won't flex or give, metal is protective but upon impact it isn't really that protecting. As it transfers energy too well, the parts will get hit harder. So it increases individual part failure on things like screens, drives, and maybe other items. So it's almost deceiving at how sturdy a metal case is. That's just it, it's really just sturdy.

See, we have outlets that people don't really care to talk about. Online retailers have now shown how cheap we can get something, as well as get that warranty but people as a whole aren't quite there. I understand some people don't have easy Internet, or locational things make it hard. In general Apple really does charge you more for something that isn't really what it appears to be. For a warranty that I don't really see all that alluring or even mathematically worth it.

I will say, if it makes you feel comfortable there is no price tag on that. I just view comfort differently, more a statistical view of what will happen. I don't buy into hype or security at all. However, I do spend a lot of them when I make major decisions, it takes me about 6 months to plan a computer build. That's just the part layout, I then have to shop around and see variances in pricing or models (460 vs 460ti). This debate is old however, it is the same debate as choosing a store like HyVee vs Wallmart. I like HyVee for it's service but I'm honest and if I know it's cheaper elsewhere (wallmart) I will shop there if I have too.