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[TT] Kaspersky says Apple is 10 years behind Microsoft in terms of security - Page 17  

post #161 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post

OSX is just LINUX, I didn't know that Linux was so insecure!

No, OSX is OSX. If it was Linux then it would be called Linux. Funny how that works, eh?
    
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post #162 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post

OSX is just LINUX, I didn't know that Linux was so insecure!

Macintosh is UNIX based. There is a difference.

It's not so much Unix is insecure, in that Apple takes 6 months longer to patch simple vulnerabilities. Oracle patched the exploit back in February. Apple JUST patched it not even a few weeks ago.

Apple won't let Oracle patch Apple Java systems, so when Oracle rolled out the patch, hackers reverse engineered the patch to find the vulnerabilities in Java. To go further there are also other exploits that affect Mac through Microsoft Word... and I think there is another too..

It's because the Majority of Mac users are Security Liabilities.

1. Because they think they are invulnerable.
2. Because they don't run any real security other than what is supplied with OSX. (it's easy to bypass OSX's built in security which as been recently added. Flashback.S is undetectable by Mac's built in anti-malware)
3. They don't run Anti-virus software. (under the guise that it is unnecessary.)

The false sense of security that the majority of Mac users have combined with their ignorance on proper security implementation and policies lead them to be easily affected and manipulated through Social Engineering and simple operating system exploits.

To go further, Linux and Unix are pretty much self governing under the prospect that more eyes on code means that more holes are patched.... But that trust can be exploited as well. It's just no one has yet to be interested in it... maybe when Linux gets up to 6% OS Marketshare.. I don't know.

As I have always said: "Nothing is infallible."

A lock keeps honest people honest, but won't stop something that someone really wants. Be it for the notoriety, or to intentionally ruin your day. Anything can be hacked. Nothing is truly "Secure". Security is a misnomer as it's only secure until someone finds the next hole. Even eliminating the human factor in security, as long as a human patches and writes software... there will be holes, exceptions, exploits, and problems. No exceptions. No one is perfect.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/29/12 at 3:45am
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post #163 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

The false sense of security that the majority of Mac users have combined with their ignorance on proper security implementation and policies lead them to be easily affected and manipulated through Social Engineering and simple operating system exploits.

To be fair, social engineering attacks are cross-platform. They don't require the user to think themselves invincible, they require the user to be ignorant of the attacker's intentions and/or to be under pressure to act without thinking.
    
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post #164 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

To be fair, social engineering attacks are cross-platform. They don't require the user to think themselves invincible, they require the user to be ignorant of the attacker's intentions and/or to be under pressure to act without thinking.

I addressed that in my digression:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

To go further, Linux and Unix are pretty much self governing under the prospect that more eyes on code means that more holes are patched.... But that trust can be exploited as well. It's just no one has yet to be interested in it... maybe when Linux gets up to 6% OS Marketshare.. I don't know.

I'm not saying that Mac users are the only ones that are susceptible to social engineering, I apologize as my wording can be misconstrued. However I am saying that they are especially susceptible to it as their culture revolves around "Mac's don't get viruses." and "It just works" which leads the majority of users into a false sense of security.

As most Mac users think themselves invincible, they forgo security measures such as firewalls, anti-virus, and appropriate password policies. I mean nothing says it best other than a Pro Mac website telling you "You don't need anti-virus"...

http://www.macworld.com/article/1137397/doyouneedantivirus.html
http://www.maciverse.com/just-say-no-to-mac-anti-virus-programs.html

Or Apple themselves...http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/#viruses
(which recently got changed to "It doesn't get PC Viruses")

Even going so far to remove their (poorly formed) suggestion FOR Anti-virus from the knowledgebase: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10111958-83.html

Everyone including Apple says you don't need AV on Mac.. but in the end it turns out that the AV would have detected Flashback before installation. Go figure right? Now it's even more dangerous not needing user authentication, and remains undetectable by Xprotect. To make it even worse another Variant, Flashback.C disables Xprotect's automatic update component....

One would think with a properly updated third party anti-virus app that it would discover them before they could do harm.

Xprotect is Apple's (innovated. LOL) Microsoft Security essentials. (protection-wise)


The fact remains that the majority of the Mac userbase, much like the majority of the Windows userbase, are a security nightmare.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/29/12 at 5:25am
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post #165 of 210
TL;DR the comments
If you use Windows 7 64-bit with a basic security program such as microsoft security essentials then your are pretty safe for everyday use that you would do with a Mac.
If you have a Mac and believe you are virus proof, then thats ok too, you are keeping Computer repair companys in business.

Its all down to preference. If you like Macs then fine, If you like the thrill of the PC (building, upgrading, killing viruses tongue.gif, hating macs thumb.gif ) then thats good too. And for the Lunix users, if M$ and apple go bust, thanks for keeping the backup alive biggrin.gif
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post #166 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by newphase View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Are you somehow referring to yourself in that post? You're calling a user-base with a higher average intelligence and wealth the dumb one? I don't think you realize how many people use Windows. Most of us in the scientific community use Macs because our UNIX apps work natively on them.

Huh?
I take issue with that.


Also, you might want to add to your TLDR post on P.5 that the entire post with the exception of para 1, is a copy-paste from another website. wink.gif

That was obvious to anyone with common sense. Notice the quotes? I went back and bold(ed) them for you... And that's not the source either nor does it change anything about the validity of it. What's wrong with pointing out the higher average intelligence? Linux users are even higher. You going to make a fuss over that too? Windows simply has a much bigger user-base because you can put in on any machine. That doesn't mean you personally fall into that below average percentage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post


As most Mac users think themselves invincible, they forgo security measures such as firewalls, anti-virus, and appropriate password policies. I mean nothing says it best other than a Pro Mac website telling you "You don't need anti-virus"...

Even going so far to remove their (poorly formed) suggestion FOR Anti-virus from the knowledgebase:

Xprotect is Apple's (innovated. LOL) Microsoft Security essentials.
The OS already has a firewall and anti-malware built into OSX. It updates every day automatically. You don't need Anti-Virus because you aren't susceptible to drive-by infections like on Windows. My MSE log has dozens of malware blocked from doing nothing other than browsing websites. You can't write outside the home directory without an admin user/pass provided manually by the user on OSX, unlike with Windows.

The fact that there's been one trojan for OSX every year or so and there's thousands a month for Windows is why you need to be worried so much about malware on Windows. None of my Windows virtual machines are without some kind of anti-malware for this reason. The fact there's never been a single virus for OSX in over 11 years is what really matters here. Viruses install without any user interaction and are able to spread to other machines on their own. That's not something that any person, no matter the intelligence level, can stop until the signature is updated in their anti-malware app; unless you want to never connect to the internet or put in a USB stick/CD into the machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post


@Shrak: And to compare them to OEM is just wrong, you pay roughly twice what you would with Apple. Twice, which is god awful. At that price range, you could take an Alienware for 2k and have 2x the power. Unless you require a warranty that lets you drop it intentionally then Apple is just using you. .

How does an extra $200 for a better case equal "twice" as much? You using Windows math? Sure you can get one with a bulky battery that you have to remove just to put in your bag and a flimsy case for $200 less, but you also get a sub-par warranty along with that.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/30/12 at 11:30am
post #167 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I addressed that in my digression:
I'm not saying that Mac users are the only ones that are susceptible to social engineering, I apologize as my wording can be misconstrued. However I am saying that they are especially susceptible to it as their culture revolves around "Mac's don't get viruses." and "It just works" which leads the majority of users into a false sense of security.
As most Mac users think themselves invincible, they forgo security measures such as firewalls, anti-virus, and appropriate password policies. I mean nothing says it best other than a Pro Mac website telling you "You don't need anti-virus"...
http://www.macworld.com/article/1137397/doyouneedantivirus.html
http://www.maciverse.com/just-say-no-to-mac-anti-virus-programs.html
Or Apple themselves...http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/#viruses
(which recently got changed to "It doesn't get PC Viruses")
Even going so far to remove their (poorly formed) suggestion FOR Anti-virus from the knowledgebase: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10111958-83.html
Everyone including Apple says you don't need AV on Mac.. but in the end it turns out that the AV would have detected Flashback before installation. Go figure right? Now it's even more dangerous not needing user authentication, and remains undetectable by Xprotect. To make it even worse another Variant, Flashback.C disables Xprotect's automatic update component....
One would think with a properly updated third party anti-virus app that it would discover them before they could do harm.
Xprotect is Apple's (innovated. LOL) Microsoft Security essentials. (protection-wise)
The fact remains that the majority of the Mac userbase, much like the majority of the Windows userbase, are a security nightmare.

Who are most mac user's?

I don't forgo anything but the antivirus, my password is stronger then the password government SIPR access. My firewall is most defiantly on..

Someday you folks will get that unix doesn't need antivirus...but NT does..when that'll be I just don't know.
 
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post #168 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

The OS already has a firewall and anti-malware built into OSX. It updates every day automatically. You don't need Anti-Virus because you aren't susceptible to drive-by infections like on Windows. My MSE log has dozens of malware blocked from doing nothing other than browsing websites. You can't write outside the home directory without an admin user/pass provided manually by the user on OSX, unlike with Windows.

The in house anti-malware is about as useful as Microsoft Security Essentials. It's not that hard to write malware that can disable it. And if you read another one of my posts, a new variant of the Flashback malware, Flashback.S does not require user authentication to install itself. So what good is that directory security feature? I'm not making this into a windows vs mac debate. I run Linux but I have a windows machine that I use for gaming and OC'ing. I know my vulnerabilities on windows outnumber those on the Mac, however the majority of macs that have no protection are an easier target than my properly secured windows machine. Now nothing is infallible and I am still susceptible to attack, however the unsecured mac is an easier target especially being that Flashback STILL has a high infection rate due to the dreaded "average userbase syndrome" of major OS's having the mental capacity of a rock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

The fact that there's been one trojan for OSX every year or so and there's thousands a month for Windows is why you need to be worried so much about malware on Windows. None of my Windows virtual machines are without some kind of anti-malware for this reason. The fact there's never been a single virus for OSX in over 11 years is what really matters here.

Viruses install without any user interaction and are able to spread to other machines on their own. That's not something that any person, no matter the intelligence level, can stop until the signature is updated in their anti-malware app; unless you want to never connect to the internet or put in a USB stick/CD into the machine.

Why does not having a single virus matter here? You know what's more dangerous than a Virus? A virus takes down machines... Botnets take down networks. So having over 600,000 Mac's attacking someone's system isn't something that matters? It doesn't matter that there hasn't been a single virus for OSX. What matters is that there are exploits and malware and your OS is not immune. It will never be Immune. Having this passe attitude about "Oh I've never gotten a single virus so I don't need protection" is assinine, and let alone dangerous. Depending on Apple for your security is ignorant as they took 2 months to patch an exploit in Java? Who knows what else they are putting off? And with Xprotect easily disabled by Flashback.C..... what use is it?

Just because it hasn't been attacked yet doesn't mean you are protected. Depending on obscurity and passive protection is not Security. NOTHING is secure. And Mac users are now starting to figure that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

How does an extra $200 for a better case equal "twice" as much? You using Windows math? Sure you can get one with a bulky battery that you have to remove just to put in your bag and a flimsy case for $200 less, but you also get a sub-par warranty along with that.

I don't see the relevance this has with the subject? We're talking about system security. Not computer case design. Stay on topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

Who are most mac user's?
I don't forgo anything but the antivirus, my password is stronger then the password government SIPR access. My firewall is most defiantly on..
Someday you folks will get that unix doesn't need antivirus...but NT does..when that'll be I just don't know.

You are a power user. You know what you're doing and are the minority among Mac users... much like power users of the Windows userbase...
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/30/12 at 3:23pm
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post #169 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

The in house anti-malware is about as useful as Microsoft Security Essentials. It's not that hard to write malware that can disable it.
Wrong. There hasn't been any malware that can disable it without you giving permission to do so/doing it yourself... You like to pretend that it's "easy" yet you have no evidence to support this made up claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I know my vulnerabilities on windows outnumber those on the Mac, however the majority of macs that have no protection are an easier target than my properly secured windows machine.
doh.gif I'm completely flabbergasted by this statement. Surely you can't be this foolish...
Wonder why you don't have any actual evidence showing that it's "easy" to target OSX.

The JAVA exploit was patched and even if another JAVA exploit is found in the future, it won't be able to execute in the first place. Flashback is a dead end. Automatic execution of JAVA applets is no longer possible without an individual personally enabling it for their machine and will automatically be disabled again if they haven't used it within a short time frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

your OS is not immune.
NOTHING is secure.
Duh? Did you just finally realize what the rest of us have known for decades? No one ever said OSX was immune. Only people like you seem to think things like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I don't see the relevance this has with my comment.
We're talking about system security. Not computer case design. Stay on topic fanboy.
That's because I wasn't responding to your comment kiddo... Do you see your name in the quote? Way to show your age though...
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/30/12 at 3:38pm
post #170 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Wrong. There hasn't been any malware that can disable it without you giving permission to do so/doing it yourself... You like to pretend that it's "easy" yet you have no evidence to support this made up claim.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20122551-263/flashback-os-x-malware-variant-disables-xprotect/

I'm just making it up huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

doh.gif I'm completely flabbergasted by this statement. Surely you can't be this foolish...
Wonder why you don't have any actual evidence showing that it's "easy" to target OSX.

Everyone knows the target that doesn't take steps toward security is more susceptible than anyone who takes all steps to security. It doesn't mean that person B is not susceptible to attack, but that person A is more of an opportunistic target. Basic security 101.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

The JAVA exploit was patched and even if another JAVA exploit is found in the future, it won't be able to execute in the first place. Flashback is a dead end. Automatic execution of JAVA applets is no longer possible without an individual personally enabling it for their machine and will automatically be disabled again if they haven't used it within a short time frame.
Give it time. Where there is a will, there is a way. And I'm sure that this won't be the last time we hear of Macs being targeted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Duh? Did you just finally realize what the rest of us have known for decades? No one ever said OSX was immune. Only people like you seem to think things like that.
I have been saying this for years but most mac users refuse to admit it. "only people like you seem to think things like that"? Where did I ever insinuate that OSX was immune? Ask any mac user pre-flashback attack if mac's were immune from attack... they would all say yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

That's because I wasn't responding to your comment kiddo... Do you see your name in the quote? Way to show your age though...
How do you to expect someone to respond after you quoted their post and put this directly after it? Your commentary insinuated you were responding to me. If you wanted to segregate your comment learn how to separate your comment's and place them at the end of your post or quote the post you are referring to.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/30/12 at 4:08pm
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