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[TT] Kaspersky says Apple is 10 years behind Microsoft in terms of security - Page 18  

post #171 of 210
BUT they're 10 years ahead of microsoft in terms of evading taxes biggrin.gif
post #172 of 210
I'd also like to say I have no particular bias or agenda against Apple.

Personally I like the Macbooks, and the new iMac. But I am against the falshoods being proported by Apple to the unfotunately uneducated simpletons that are encouraged to purchase their systems under the guise that they are buying "the best" and "virus-proof". Yes we all know in the tech sector, the difference between a virus and malware. But the majority of most major OS's user base DOESN'T. Malware = virus to them. SO they purchase a product under false pretenses.

To go further they have a elitist culture associated with them that encourages this ignorance to security. They are a nightmare to security professionals and possibly one of the biggest reasons behind the over 588,000 macs (98.6% of the 600,000 computers infected were macs: being infected with the Flashback malware.

And to expand on past commentary stating that flashback is a dead end, it's incorrect to assume that having a patch out and removal tools mean that the exploitation of these holes are over. There are still over 140,000 infected machines active.

Just because there are patches and removal tools, mean nothing if the general userbase doesn't know about flashback or how to remove them. Many of them aren't even aware they may be infected. The problem here lies with ignorance and naivety. That is the issue. As long as there are Mac heads still saying "You don't need anti-virus." or "Your mac is the most secure OS out there" people are going to continue their habits and maintain being a security risk. And that's the purpose of this article.

Xprotect is a step in the right direction, but there still needs to be more of a proactive step from Apple to prevent these events from occurring again.
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post #173 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I'd also like to say I have no particular bias or agenda against Apple.

*checks post history*

seh6p.gif

We can count on you to post some anti Apple banter, like clockwork.
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post #174 of 210
Well let me be the first to say I AM biased against apple, I root for their demise. Why would anyone apologize about this? Their entire corporation is filled with patent trolling tax evading scumbags who feed products to their sheepish fanbase. I can't think of mucnh to like about this company. thumb.gif
post #175 of 210
It doesnt matter if your on Windows, OSX or Linux. Viruses will get in if you let them

The average computer user simply does not know how to keep away from viruses and malware because they always click on the "click here to win $10,000!" or a website that states they provide security scans rolleyes.gif

By average computer user I mean the people that buy computers "because it looks pretty"

Linux users are NOT average computer users, they are superhuman (I know a few, and boy are they smart) and the likelyhood of a linux distro getting a virus is very low as the users know how to protect themselves

Windows on the other hand.. lol I love windows but some people are clueless about virus/malware protection

And Mac....*sigh* the time will come when the salesman will reccomend that you DO get an anti virus.
And to be honest its better to be safe than sorry

The vast majority of us here on OCN DO know how to use these electronic contraptions so why all the attacks on each other lol its not US that are letting these hackers/viruses slip by

Not hating, but seriously apple, 10 years? wake up plz
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post #176 of 210
Quote:
And your reading comprehension is pretty poor as well. Asking the user's permission and handing over your admin user/pass to a malicious file is not the fault of the OS. Which is exactly what I said already. You have to manually give it permission to run.

I can send you a bash file that will wipe your drive as well, if you'd like. You're going to have to give it your admin user/pass for it work as well. Unlike on windows, it's not going to be able to run by itself without the user's permission. Another reason why OSX is far more secure and better for the average person. If you had actually read the article, and could understand this part:
in order to operate, Flashback still needs you to download it, purposefully open the installer, and provide your password to run so it can make alterations to your system.,
you would not be making such an embarrassing mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

Everyone knows the target that doesn't take steps toward security is more susceptible than anyone who takes all steps to security. It doesn't mean that person B is not susceptible to attack, but that person A is more of an opportunistic target. Basic security 101.
Except when you're comparing Windows to a proper UNIX based OS like OS X, that is. Windows has so many zero-day exploits that go unpatched for years that even if you're running anti-malware and a firewall, you're still not going to be as protected. For ex: http://www.vupen.com/english/zerodays/

Microsoft has a long history of ignoring critical vulnerabilities for years and even decades. Why, there was even an exploit published recently that has been working for over 15 years now, even throughout all the different revisions of the OS. Looks someone didn't so well in basic security 101.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

Give it time. Where there is a will, there is a way. And I'm sure that this won't be the last time we hear of Macs being targeted.
Ah, the old, "I know that I'm wrong right now, but sometime in the unforseen future, I might possibly eventually be right one day".
And we have given it time, actually. 11 years to be exact and yet still there hasn't been a single virus for OS X even with over 50 million users now. Yet, OS 9 with a far smaller user-base, had quite a few back in the 90s. So, it's pretty clear that they've focused far more on security and strengthening the OS than Gate's clone of an OS has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I have been saying this for years but most mac users refuse to admit it. "only people like you seem to think things like that"? Where did I ever insinuate that OSX was immune?.
You're the only one here trying make the claim that OS X users thought they were immune to all kinds of malware. No one in this thread ever stated that, yet here you come, spewing your non-sense trying to make it seem like they did. Everyone else already knows that nothing is completely secure if it's been made by man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

How do you to expect someone to respond after you quoted their post and put this directly after it? Your commentary insinuated you were responding to me. If you wanted to segregate your comment learn how to separate your comment's and place them at the end of your post or quote the post you are referring to.
Ummm, I expect them to have at least half of their brain working and be able to read who's name is being quoted like almost everyone else can on here?
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/30/12 at 7:28pm
post #177 of 210
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post #178 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

And your reading comprehension is pretty poor as well. Asking the user's permission and handing over your admin user/pass to a malicious file is not the fault of the OS. Which is exactly what I said already. You have to manually give it permission to run.

I'm faulting Apple on their delay of the patching. As a result I am faulting the OS just like I fault windows everyday over their hellish incarnation of a hole known as the Internet Explorer web browser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

I can send you a bash file that will wipe your drive as well, if you'd like. You're going to have to give it your admin user/pass for it work as well. Unlike on windows, it's not going to be able to run by itself without the user's permission. Another reason why OSX is far more secure and better for the average person. If you had actually read the article, and could understand this part:
in order to operate, Flashback still needs you to download it, purposefully open the installer, and provide your password to run so it can make alterations to your system.,
you would not be making such an embarrassing mistake.

How is it an embarrassing mistake? An average user would not expect malware to be in a flash installer? "Oh Flash needs administrative rights, OK"

The average user thinks they can't get malware so they aren't looking for it. That's how flashback worked.

A red flag would have gone up for a power user like you... but to everyone else who owns a mac would think nothing of it. That's how people get their credit cards and identities stolen EVERY DAY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Except when you're comparing Windows to a proper UNIX based OS like OS X, that is. Windows has so many zero-day exploits that go unpatched for years that even if you're running anti-malware and a firewall, you're still not going to be as protected. For ex: http://www.vupen.com/english/zerodays/
Microsoft has a long history of ignoring critical vulnerabilities for years and even decades. Why, there was even an exploit published recently that has been working for over 15 years now, even throughout all the different revisions of the OS.

You kinda missed my point entirely. Everyone knows that Windows has more holes than swiss cheese, however a properly defended Windows system is still more secure than a undefended unprotected operating system. Yes windows has a trillion and one exploits with some change. However if the right steps are taken, and proper defenses setup, it is still more secure than an unprotected Mac system with a (now patched) exploit. That is my point. I'm not trying to say "HAIL WINDOWS! IT IS THE ALMIGHTY SUPERIOR OS" no. it's far from it and a huge security risk by itself. I only use it because I can run my Games and some apps with ease on it. Everyone knows that Windows has holes. Not everyone knows that OSX is vulnerable.

OSX by itself is more secure than an unsecured Windows machine. But everyone knows that. Hell Any Unix/Linux based OS is more secure than a vanilla windows machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Ah, the old, "I know that I'm wrong right now, but sometime in the unforseen future, I might possibly eventually be right one day".
And we have given it time, actually. 11 years to be exact and yet still there hasn't been a single virus for OS X even with over 50 million users now. Yet, OS 9 with a far smaller user-base, had quite a few back in the 90s. So, it's pretty clear that they've focused far more on security and strengthening the OS than Gate's clone of an OS has.

Are you sure? Here's the premise behind my comment. Windows has the majority market share. Now any black hat wants to affect the vast majority of users. With the majority market share comes average users, averages users know nothing of security and as such they are vulnurable targets.

If you want to hurt the most people you are going to go for the easiest target. The easiest target is the vast majority of Windows users.

But now since Macintosh has been moving up in market there has been an increase in malware affecting the OS through exploits. Albeit the vast majority of exploits require social engineering, but when something is popular, everyone wants it even if they have no knowledge of how it works. This is how those macs got infected. These users thought they were installing Flash player when they were actually installing Flashback. If they got the C variant they had their Xprotect disabled, and many don't even know they are infected. The key here is that if they had Anti-virus software on their system... (and I use anti-virus as a general term. Anti-malware would be the correct term since you enjoy being politically correct.) it would have detected the flashback exploit being installed and stopped it from infecting the user's system. Voila you are now pretty much the most secure mainstream OS in the world. OSX has its numerous merits and I'm sorry if my posts seem to discount that. The object of my posts are directed at those who are advising against proper computing habits. Yes OSX has less exploits and no viruses in over 10 years since it's incarnation. That's awesome. but that doesn't mean it won't happen. It means that you ARE safer but that you still need to take the steps TOWARDS security.

My car is 5 star crash tested. Does that mean I am going to live in an accident? I sure hope so. Hopefully you see my point now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

You're the only one here trying make the claim that OS X users thought they were immune to all kinds of malware. No one in this thread ever stated that, yet here you come, spewing your non-sense trying to make it seem like they did. Everyone else already knows that nothing is completely secure if it's been made by man.

Not once did I say anyone in this thread was insinuating that. I was talking outside of this website and post. The majority of Mac users on this site are power users and those that do not think like the rest that I have had the misfortune of meeting are exempt from any and all my commentary. I am speaking directly about the many Mac users I have experienced that think that way. I'm not saying YOU or any other power user particularly thinks that way. The majority of the mac userbase are not power users, so I would hope you can make that distinction from my previous posts. And NO. Not everyone knows that. I had a customer come to me with their macbook that had the flashback malware. They were told by the Mac store that they were "secure and protected' and couldn't understand how they got infected. Now I put it in quotes because I think it was more of their assumption than the actual words said to them by the Apple store salesman (which in all actuality is is possible they may have said to make a sale). But I digress. The majority of Mac and Windows userbases are NOT power users. They are average simpletons who have barely any knowledge of risks and security. They will believe just about anything you tell them and are often fooled into believing they are more secure than in actuality. The problem here lies in the marketing strategy of Apple. They can't go around saying they are "safe". You go to the Mac website and it says "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing" Now that is the most ignorant thing to say to an average user. We all know that you can't secure data by doing nothing... maybe we have to do less. But if you said that to any other user they would honestly have a false sense of security. That is my distaste towards Apple's marketing decisions. The majority of Mac users DO think they are immune from malware. When I was discussing the topic of flashback among a group of friends and acquaintances, I was inundated with questions asking if it were a joke or how because mac is secure from viruses and malware. Upon polling, the majority did not have the update, but thankfully many were not infected. When the topic was brought up in one of my classes, many Mac users did not know about the updates or about flashback. So everywhere I turned they were just as uninformed as I expected the general userbase to be. Not everyone is knowledgable of these topics or even aware of their existance, and is where I draw the distinction on Apple preying on the average computer user who wants a system that "just works". They pay a pretty penny for what they have and in the end they are let down because Apple took too long to patch. I would think they would pride themselves on making sure their system is more secure and patching faster and earlier than the rest. I'm not the only one who thinks this way:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57410476-37/apples-security-code-of-silence-a-big-problem/

Apple is a laughing-stock of the security industry. They pose themselves as the most secure OS out there but won't take the necessary steps to patch on time or acknowledge security risks. And everyone knows Microsoft is just as bad if not worse. But that's not the issue at hand. Microsoft doesn't sell their product claiming they are the most secure, and that you don't need Anti-virus. And that your data is protected, so that you don't need to do anything. The above article notes it all:
Quote:
Originally Posted by c|net 
Apple doesn't allow Oracle to patch Java. The latest round of malware could have been avoided with faster patching. Since Apple likes to control its patching it is often behind. The window of exposure on the Mac platform is longer. The easy fix here is to let Oracle do the patching.

Apple has a rudimentary antivirus update utility that's updated with signatures only when there's a big enough threat. Apple knew about Flashback, which has been pointed out by security researchers, but didn't [immediately] ship an update.

Apple users have no idea if they are infected and don't know how to search. Why would they know? Apple has told them there are no viruses on the Mac. This false sense of security is the primary reason Apple needs to start talking. Apple users are smug about security.

Anti-virus vendors can't provide protection to the Mac because users don't think they are needed.

While Windows is argued as unstable (personally I've never had a problem with it, even overclocking mind you) and IS the most unsecure OS out there, Microsoft sells their OS as-is and as far as I know hasn't make any false claims that their OS is the most secure operating system and "Just works". They didn't acknowledge the iOS Java exploit until that researcher leaked it to the public. Thankfully they patched it in iOS version 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Ummm, I expect them to have at least half of their brain working and be able to read who's name is being quoted like almost everyone else can on here?

It was my bad. I must have overlooked it when I was posting somehow. When I originally typed my response the post you were trying to quote did not appear. My fault for jumping to conclusions. Apologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappycoreDJ View Post

*checks post history*
We can count on you to post some anti Apple banter, like clockwork.

How is posting recent Flashback developments anti-apple banter? I posted one thread recently which pertained to Apple and it was negative, yes but I'm not Anti-Apple. You can call me anti-Apple as much as you want, but I'm just posting bits and pieces which interest me. I posted the flashback news because I wanted people to know about the new variants. And when people ask questions on why it happened.. the only thing you can point to is the OS and Apple. If apple hadn't have drug their feet in patching it, their wouldn't have been 588,000 macs (98.6% of 600,000) infected. To be honest I expected this from Microsoft. But that's not news because everyone knows that M$ Windows is about as stable and secure as a piece of bread with a hole in it.

I'm such a Windows Fanboy... yeah.. no. I only run my Windows machine for my Games and that's it. I do everything else on my Linux boxes.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/30/12 at 9:18pm
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post #179 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

I really hope some a bad ass virus comes and destroys MACs. i'm tired of all these pompous pricks that think they are cool cause they have MACs

And you're just another 15 year old who has a cool PC built by his mommy and daddy right?

Stereotyping gets you nowhere here. My mom uses a Mac and I see no reason to hate the product for what it does. Realistically, there's nothing bad about products from Apple; hearsay is the biggest reason why Apple is so hated by the general PC market.

Also, PC stands for Personal Computer. So those of you who argue a Mac vs a PC, you're comparing a PC with one OS vs another PC with a different OS... tongue.gif
Edited by Imglidinhere - 4/30/12 at 9:44pm
     
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256GB SanDisk M.2 SSD 1TB HGST 7.2k HDD Custom Cooling by Dell Solutions Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
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15.6" 1920x1080 IPS Screen Dell 130w PSU Logitech G602 Wireless 
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Xtrac 'Ripper' Mouse Pad 
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Intel Core i7-2760QM Toshiba Qosmio X775 Nvidia 1.5GB GTX 560M 8GB DDR3 1333 
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120GB Samsung 830 SSD + 1TB HGST 7200RPM HDD CD/DVD-RW Stock Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
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post #180 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

Also, PC stands for Personal Computer. So those of you who argue a Mac vs a PC, you're comparing a PC with one OS vs another PC with a different OS... tongue.gif

At one point they had similar, but different hardware. Many do not know that most Macs are running Intel processors these days. thumb.gif
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Crucial M500 120GB SSD WD BLACK SERIES WD1003FZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Ca... Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 6... Corsair H100 
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Windows 7 Ultimate Edition Alienware Optx AW2210 Asus VS239 CM Storm QuickFire Rapid Cherry MX Brown 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I5 2500K Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H XFX Radeon R9-280 Double Dissipation Corsair Vengance 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial M500 120GB SSD WD BLACK SERIES WD1003FZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Ca... Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 6... Corsair H100 
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Windows 7 Ultimate Edition Alienware Optx AW2210 Asus VS239 CM Storm QuickFire Rapid Cherry MX Brown 
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AMD Quad-Core A8-4500M Satellite L855D-S5114 Radeon™ HD 7640G Generic 4GB DDR3-1600MHz (PC3-12800) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M4 128GB SSD Generic DVD SuperMulti DVD-RAM (5x) Windows 10 Home (Hardcore Old-key Fresh Install... 15.6" Widescreen TruBrite TFT @ 1366x768 
PowerAudio
65W (19v 3.42a) 100-240/50-60Hz AC Adaptor SRS Premium Sound HD 
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Pentium Dual T2310 Gateway C Series Intel Accelerated Graphics 1024MB 
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