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[TT] Kaspersky says Apple is 10 years behind Microsoft in terms of security - Page 19  

post #181 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVolta425 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

It will change as they gain in popularity. Windows is more secure because it cant afford not to be.
If people browsed the internet, downloaded, etc. smarter, we wouldn't have a need for so many security patches. The internet would be a higher quality place if people were smarter about it.

Well I think half the people who own a computer don't even have an antivirus. And another large percentage actually has an antivirus, but hasn't renewed it and thereby runs on an outdated engine. And in my country there's an even larger percentage of people who buy a new laptop that comes bundled with a trial antivirus. They'll never be bothered to buy or upgrade the antivirus once the trial is expired.

So, my point being: I think you're right. If people would be smarter about it, we would indeed not need so many security patches.

It's not that. AV should be the last line of defence. People need to browse smarter and not download those 5KB movies on P2P, , install a random codec or click ads, etc. This is how any OS (Even mostly unknown ones like Minix, Plan9, etc) has a security flaw. The users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Not by a long shot.
I'm not gonna analyze every part of your post, and it's honestly disheartening that you found it necessary to bring so many examples. I'll just say this - I never said Windows has always been as secure - fact is, Windows right now is very secure, and while it may not be exactly as secure, this is the case with any two operating systems. OS X is not bulletproof, and the only reason there's so much documentation about Windows exploitation is because it has been researched for a very long time, while OS X has largely gone under the radar - even Apple themselves give security research a low priority, while MS employs a large amount of security researchers.

I can understand his point with that (Wrong as it is) in that OS X being Unix based means it's more secure against conventional malware, etc attacks in theory. Theory doesn't always apply to reality though, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenthos View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post

No. Do your research. Java can be faster than MSVC++.

Yeah.

Anyway, doesn't make my point less valid.

But nvm, going off topic.

...Yes, it does. Java code runs on anything with a java exec installed (Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris, I think there's also OpenJDK on BSD and the like?) with little to no work. Meaning you can have multi-OS code with little to no overhead...The only issue I can think of recently is that OS X 10.5 only had OpenGL 1.3 support or something, and when Notch did an effect for OpenGL1.4 (Might have wrong version numbers) then OS X 10.5 owners couldn't run it until he put it back to OpenGL 1.3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd View Post

i've used MS all my life and i can tell you this, it all depends on how you use your computer. malware and viruses dont randomly get on your system if you know how to use your system right.
-not like.. oh nice pop up/ad , oh ima click it see what happens.. congratulations, you have won $1,000,000... CLICK... lol... this is not the right way to do it and then complain MS sucks ^^

Umm, apparently you haven't used a computer since 2000. All you have to do is visit Facebook.com or any of your favorite sites such as Engadget/etc to get infected. Pretty sure this has been pointed out in this thread before.

...No. I'm yet to get a single notification about virii from Avast and I go on facebook quite a bit. Maybe it's because I run adbl-oh wait, even with ads in IE9 I still get none.
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post #182 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It's not that. AV should be the last line of defence. People need to browse smarter and not download those 5KB movies on P2P, , install a random codec or click ads, etc. This is how any OS (Even mostly unknown ones like Minix, Plan9, etc) has a security flaw. The users.

This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I can understand his point with that (Wrong as it is) in that OS X being Unix based means it's more secure against conventional malware, etc attacks in theory. Theory doesn't always apply to reality though, of course.

This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

...No. I'm yet to get a single notification about virii from Avast and I go on facebook quite a bit. Maybe it's because I run adbl-oh wait, even with ads in IE9 I still get none.

And this. I for the longest time ran my Windows 7 machine without an Anti-virus. The only reason I installed one was when I let friends and family use it, I ended up getting a driveby trojan because they used IE. Because I did so, It doesn't mean that one should run without anti-virus, but I did so for a long time because I was simply lazy and had no need. Average users NEED anti-viri/malware software... in house definitions only go so far. And that is the downfall of Xprotect. Independent Anti-virus companies update their definitions every day. Xprotect only does so every now and then.

I remember a while ago AV's were rumored to have issues with OSX, but I would think by now the issues have been remedied. Instead of telling users to NOT run AV, they should be encouraging the use of it. But if they do so, they lose their selling point. Users shouldn't do things that endanger their system... but they do it anyway thinking they are immune because Apple says they are immune (from viruses and "protected" from Malware). But the average userbase doesn't know the distinction between the "Virus" and "Malware". They see "Protected from PC viruses" and think "I am safe". That's the issue at hand here.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/30/12 at 11:01pm
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post #183 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It's not that. AV should be the last line of defence. People need to browse smarter and not download those 5KB movies on P2P, , install a random codec or click ads, etc. This is how any OS (Even mostly unknown ones like Minix, Plan9, etc) has a security flaw. The users.
I can understand his point with that (Wrong as it is) in that OS X being Unix based means it's more secure against conventional malware, etc attacks in theory. Theory doesn't always apply to reality though, of course.
...Yes, it does. Java code runs on anything with a java exec installed (Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris, I think there's also OpenJDK on BSD and the like?) with little to no work. Meaning you can have multi-OS code with little to no overhead...The only issue I can think of recently is that OS X 10.5 only had OpenGL 1.3 support or something, and when Notch did an effect for OpenGL1.4 (Might have wrong version numbers) then OS X 10.5 owners couldn't run it until he put it back to OpenGL 1.3.
...No. I'm yet to get a single notification about virii from Avast and I go on facebook quite a bit. Maybe it's because I run adbl-oh wait, even with ads in IE9 I still get none.

OSX has been certified unix since 10.5, it is not unix based it is unix..
 
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post #184 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

I'd also like to say I have no particular bias or agenda against Apple.
Personally I like the Macbooks, and the new iMac. But I am against the falshoods being proported by Apple to the unfotunately uneducated simpletons that are encouraged to purchase their systems under the guise that they are buying "the best" and "virus-proof". Yes we all know in the tech sector, the difference between a virus and malware. But the majority of most major OS's user base DOESN'T. Malware = virus to them. SO they purchase a product under false pretenses.
To go further they have a elitist culture associated with them that encourages this ignorance to security. They are a nightmare to security professionals and possibly one of the biggest reasons behind the over 588,000 macs (98.6% of the 600,000 computers infected were macs: being infected with the Flashback malware.
And to expand on past commentary stating that flashback is a dead end, it's incorrect to assume that having a patch out and removal tools mean that the exploitation of these holes are over. There are still over 140,000 infected machines active.
Just because there are patches and removal tools, mean nothing if the general userbase doesn't know about flashback or how to remove them. Many of them aren't even aware they may be infected. The problem here lies with ignorance and naivety. T
hat is the issue. As long as there are Mac heads still saying "You don't need anti-virus." or "Your mac is the most secure OS out there" people are going to continue their habits and maintain being a security risk. And that's the purpose of this article.
Xprotect is a step in the right direction, but there still needs to be more of a proactive step from Apple to prevent these events from occurring again.

Mac's are not a nightmare for security professionals, I don't run AV and am allowed on my government network..It's a nightmare for people like you..

You don't need to know about flashback, the scanner and remover were pushed out as a software update, the only people left with flashback are people that haven't run a software update in a bit..

I don't need AV and have no intention of installing it, and OSX is the most secure OS out there, for reasons that have been stated an that you ignored.
 
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post #185 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I don't need AV and have no intention of installing it, and OSX is the most secure OS out there, for reasons that have been stated an that you ignored.
Might wanna edit that bit wink.gif
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post #186 of 210
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

OSX has been certified unix since 10.5, it is not unix based it is unix..

A while back I got yelled at by some Mac Fanboys saying OSX was not Unix... Glad I was right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

Mac's are not a nightmare for security professionals, I don't run AV and am allowed on my government network...

Government network ≠ Civilian network. I'm not government IT and I don't know your local policies. Chances are they have mitigated the risk if you are allowed to plug your macbook into the network.
Actually I'm really surprised considering the wake of Flashback... A couple of Jumpdrives get infected with malware and BAM they're banned. A couple of Mac's get infected with botnet malware and they still allow private computers on the network? That's scary. I'll see what I can dig up on the policy of privately owned systems on government networks....Unless you'd care to enlighten me on your network policy.

In addition this is why I say they are a security nightmare: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/254382/macs_more_likely_to_carry_windows_malware_than_mac_malware_study_finds.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

You don't need to know about flashback, the scanner and remover were pushed out as a software update, the only people left with flashback are people that haven't run a software update in a bit..

The problem still is that you're putting the weight of the software update on the shoulders of uninformed users. How are they supposed to know to update their macs if they don't know about Flashbback?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I don't need AV and have no intention of installing it, and OSX is the most secure OS out there, for reasons that have been stated an that you ignored.

It's not the most secure being apple takes forever to push updates and acknowledge threats.... but I ignored it's merits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

OSX by itself is more secure than an unsecured Windows machine. But everyone knows that. Hell Any Unix/Linux based OS is more secure than a vanilla windows machine.

You don't need AV because you're obviously more conscious about your browsing habits and behavior. The general public does because they are incapable of running their software updater utility.... thumb.gif
Edited by MediaRocker - 5/1/12 at 1:17am
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post #187 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

...No. I'm yet to get a single notification about virii from Avast and I go on facebook quite a bit. Maybe it's because I run adbl-oh wait, even with ads in IE9 I still get none.

You realize that you're speaking from a sample size of one, right? That's how most malware is spread now. They pay for ad placement on a legitimate site(with fraudulent money), then switch the ad to an infected script later on. Or they infect sites with zero-days, especially wordpress/joomla types.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/1/12 at 1:11am
post #188 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

A while back I got yelled at by some Mac Fanboys saying OSX was not Unix... Glad I was right.
Government network ≠ Civilian network. I'm not government IT and I don't know your local policies. Chances are they have mitigated the risk if you are allowed to plug your macbook into the network.
Actually I'm really surprised considering the wake of Flashback... A couple of Jumpdrives get infected with malware and BAM they're banned. A couple of Mac's get infected with botnet malware and they still allow private computers on the network? That's scary. I'll see what I can dig up on the policy of privately owned systems on government networks....Unless you'd care to enlighten me on your network policy.
In addition this is why they are a security nightmare: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/254382/macs_more_likely_to_carry_windows_malware_than_mac_malware_study_finds.html
The problem still is that you're putting the weight of the software update on the shoulders of uninformed users. How are they supposed to know to update their macs if they don't know about Flashbback?
It's not the most secure being apple takes forever to push updates and acknowledge threats.... but I ignored it's merits?
You don't need AV because you're obviously more conscious about your browsing habits and behavior. The general public does because they are incapable of running their software updater utility.... thumb.gif

I doubt you were "yelled at" but you are correct, OSX is Unix with all the good and bad that comes with it.

Because 500,000 Mac's were infected? Apple shipped 4.3 million Macs Q1 2012..

yes and thub drives are still banned, as a matter of fact all front facin USB ports are turned off. The policy has been changing becasue of the push to work from home. While at home you VPN into the net ther are few reasons to plug in to the network other than printing but yes you can. Remember we have Mac's on out networks already, most of the video and graphics types are on OSX.

No because OSX will check for updates automatically.
Edited by GermanyChris - 5/1/12 at 1:24am
 
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post #189 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I doubt you were "yelled at" but you are correct, OSX is Unix with all the good and bad that comes with it.

Well actually I was told off across the room during lecture before he stormed out... wasn't exactly yelling, but he wasn't exactly pleasant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

Because 500,000 Mac's were infected? Apple shipped 4.3 million Macs Q1 2012..

Yes, because they freak out over any threat typically. Especially considering this could allow an insider attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

yes and thub drives are still banned, as a matter of fact all front facin USB ports are turned off. The policy has been changing becasue of the push to work from home. While at home you VPN into the net ther are few reasons to plug in to the network other than printing but yes you can. Remember we have Mac's on out networks already, most of the video and graphics types are on OSX.
Which is understandable... I would guess they scan the mac for known threats prior to any network operation...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

No because OSX will check for updates automatically.

Then please explain how over many macs have yet to have the malware removed and disabled?

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Mac-Flashback-Malware-Still-Going-Strong-Security-Experts-Say-473860/
Edited by MediaRocker - 5/1/12 at 3:45am
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post #190 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

Well actually I told off across the room during lecture before he stormed out... wasn't exactly yelling, but he wasn't exactly pleasant.
Yes, because they freak out over any threat typically. Especially considering this could allow an insider attack.
Which is understandable... I would guess they scan the mac for known threats prior to any network operation...
Then please explain how over many macs have yet to have the malware removed and disabled?
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Mac-Flashback-Malware-Still-Going-Strong-Security-Experts-Say-473860/

I'll let it updater later is how stuff like this happens security threats remain as you know..

The total number of infections is still quite small..

Yes, brought all 5 Macs in for a scan, got the AV lecture and was sent on my way.

DA IA has been testing iPads also from what I hear from some friends down in GA, I'm guessing the intent is to replace BlackBerry with iOS but thats a guess. Nothing happens fast but you'd think they'd head over to Windows phone..
 
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