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Plan9 REALLY likes Arch - Page 5  

post #41 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

If you have such a problem with Arch or rolling release in general. The simple answer is to not use it. No one is forcing you. And obviously you have some kind of problem with either or as you're nit picking and puposely seeking stuff to be wrong. Like I said in a previous post, you can go to any 'stable' distro's forums and find plenty of 'horror' stories alike. If you dig through Ubuntu, Debian, Red hat, Fedora, Slack, BSD, or any archive you can find 'spectacular failures'.

I don't use Arch (any more) so I don't really have a problem with it, nor do I care that people use it. Use what you like for all I care. All I'm doing is simply arguing the merits of the OS with people who think Arch is the bees knees and have started a discussion about how great it is.
post #42 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

I would honestly say, that is the price you pay if you want the features that arch linux offers, bleeding edge software, minimalist approach, etc. If you simply do not know what you are doing, or dont take any caution before any upgrade, then anything that happens is your own fault, not that of the developers, no one is forcing any one  to run the update process in pacman.

Actually you wrong, you can have a stable base and run bleeding edge software, but you need to separate the two to accomplish it. Arch doesn't offer any features you listed over what I already have in another OS minus the unreliability.

Uuhhh you are forced to run pacman, you forced to do this when a new app you need to install is no longer in your pacman cache. That or risk things being out of sync redface.gif
post #43 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

Based on first hand experience and being a professional Unix Sys admin.
I'm a Unix sys admin too and Arch has never broken on me. Perhaps you're just not a very good sys admin (notice how we can both troll this thread wink.gif )
post #44 of 97
I guess the difference between our trolling is that at least I'm attempting to discuss real scenarios with opinion, you just trolling with a personal attack wink.gif.

But anyway my pay cheque says I'm a great Sys admin thumb.gif
post #45 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post


Actually you wrong, you can have a stable base and run bleeding edge software, but you need to separate the two to accomplish it. Arch doesn't offer any features you listed over what I already have in another OS minus the unreliability.
Uuhhh you are forced to run pacman, you forced to do this when a new app you need to install is no longer in your pacman cache. That or risk things being out of sync redface.gif

 

Well...I'm not sure how I'm wrong, As I'm  a 100% sure I did not mention another distro or said they are not able to do these things that arch Linux prides itself on. 

 

syncing your repo's and updating in pacman are two different process. you can sync without updating, and you don't have to update everything to install new applications, only the packages you have installed that are in that programs dependency chain if it requires the new version. 

 

since these 3 different process require user interaction, again, no one is forcing them to running them. 

 

I actually do not disagree with you about some of your points about arch, I simply don't like to be told i'm wrong when the evidence that is brought into to prove i'm wrong, isn't even related to what I was talking about or what is said in response, is in error like your statement.

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post #46 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

I guess the difference between our trolling is that at least I'm attempting to discuss real scenarios with opinion, you just trolling with a personal attack wink.gif.
There is no difference. Trolling is not an attempt at a discussion, it's attacking for attacking sake. The fact that I made it personal changes very little as the sort of "distro-zealotry" you're promoting is effectively personal attacks by proxy; thus your intent was to cause just as much disruption and upset.

Plus now you've admitted to trolling, I can report you thumb.gif
[edit]
There's already a mod here - no point reporting
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

But anyway my pay cheque says I'm a great Sys admin thumb.gif
Not really. It just says you're probably a contractor - and my opinion of most contractors is pretty low.
Edited by Plan9 - 5/3/12 at 1:43am
post #47 of 97
Lets suppose you right and I am a terrible Admin.

How does a good Admin like yourself run 'pacman -Syu' differently to myself or any other noob user, reboot, and avoid a system not booting due to poor testing by the developer.

My point was never that you can fix an unbootable system, I'm not interested in that point. Unless you are saying that I made those threads up and this is not a common occurrence on Arch.
post #48 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

Lets suppose you right and I am a terrible Admin.
How does a good Admin like yourself run 'pacman -Syu' differently to myself or any other noob user, reboot, and avoid a system not booting due to poor testing by the developer.
My system has ever failed to boot once after a pacman -Suy and that was my fault (I was running LILO after Arch has dropped support for it).

But to answer your question: often it's down to users forcing updates when manual intervention is required or not checking Arch's front page when warning messages appear prior to reboot (and pacman does produce these messages during updates).

Going back to my experience, if I hadn't just ran pacman -Suy in a non-focused tty then I'd have seen messages from pacman advising me to manually update my boot menu. So that was entirely my fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

My point was never that you can fix an unbootable system, I'm not interested in that point. Unless you are saying that I made those threads up and this is not a common occurrence on Arch.
You can go to any distro or OS's forum and see dozens of threads about updates breaking things:
Ubuntu frequently breaks
  • networking stacks with distro upgrades
  • Windows Servers have known to be crippled by Windows Service packs.
  • even OS X has had it's fair share of bugs - the biggest that springs to mind was a bug which would wipe user accounts upon reboot.

If you want bug free software then you're living in a dream world. Just the shear array of hardware combinations alone makes writing bug free OS's impossible - and that's not even discussing the issue of 3rd party software and user error.
Edited by Plan9 - 5/3/12 at 2:13am
post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

You can go to any distro or OS's forum and see dozens of threads about updates breaking things:
Ubuntu frequently breaks
  • networking stacks with distro upgrades
  • Windows Servers have known to be crippled by Windows Service packs.
  • even OS X has had it's fair share of bugs - the biggest that springs to mind was a bug which would wipe user accounts upon reboot.

None of those OSs you listed I think highly of anyway. I've only ever been able to use Ubuntu for a very short period before it annoys the hell out of me that I just have to get rid of it. If you like Unix don't use Ubuntu. I can't comment on Windows Servers, I haven't admin one in 10 years. I don't mind OSX I don't love it either, its not my first choice but Id pick it over any Linux distro if I had to.

As far as upgrades go FreeBSD has every general purpose OS beaten in my experience. I also find using it as a desktop far less hassle in the long run. While the initial setup is on par with Arch in terms of time to configure, upgrades always work as expected.
post #50 of 97
Lol, obviously he's trolling and has a problem with Arch. Trying to single it out from the rest like it's the only one with problems. All Linux distro's have their fair share, OS X does, and Windows.
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