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[Anandtech] GTX 690 Preview - Page 16

post #151 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

1) The only thing i'm trying to prove are your ridiculous assumptions about how you seem to draw conclusions from things that have never been stated by Nvidia themselves.

2) The saddle feels great, because i'm not one spouting off about how a company has priced a product in accordance with both the current market and how they had ALWAYS done business in the past.

3) You're the one approaching this from a personal angle, not me. The price is justified given the landscape of the GPU market and Nvidia's offerings. What's more to say?

4) You're the one making assumptions about Nvidia purposely holding back superior products that you have NO PROOF OF even existing, and complaining that because the GTX 690 (and 680) lack things like voltage control, power distribution control (neither of which they have ever implemented in any of their GPUs), a "revamped" fan/cooler, and whatnot, automatically makes these cards "mid-grade" and thus not worth the price of admission.

5) What was the other thing? Oh yeah, Nvidia's "focus on efficiency over raw power are hallmarks of mid grade units." Pretty sure the last time Nvidia tried to go for raw power over efficiency and cool temps (I believe they called it the "GTX 470 and 480") they were completely buried by what the Radeon 5000 series had to offer....which, oddly enough, was...efficiency and cool temps over raw power. And no one ever questioned AMD's offerings as merely being, "mid-grade." Not to mention, the prices then were in-line with what the market was averaging at the time. The current market offerings DOUBLE the performance of the last generation, at least when it comes to the high-end. How can you argue that the prices aren't making any sense?

6) So again...you can keep responding with these posts that make no sense, because you're basing your logic off of assumptions and a sense of entitlement in order to essentially persuade people that nothing that Nvidia is currently offering is worth the price of admission because they don't meet your personal expectations (which you, for some reason, feel like everyone else agrees with).
Hate to be the one to tell you this, friend, but you need to quit acting like your point of view is something shared by "the vast majority" of people that have any interest in the current GPU landscape.

1) Last I heard, companies don't put out unfavorable info on their products. If you wanna go by nvidia's word, why are you rocking that 590? Nvidia's marketing clearly states a 460 is "wicked fast" and has "exceptional performance in dx11 titles". Why are you liquid cooling your components when the manufacturers clearly think you're better off with a stock cooler? Please don't magically transform into an ignorant fanboy whenever it becomes convenient for an argument.

2) Please provide evidence supporting your claim that all previous top-end GPUs were stripped down versions of the chips they originally intended to be. Your claim is far wilder than mine, and yet you think I'm the one spouting nonsense.

3) Again, everyone in my camp including myself was merely stating that the 680 and 690 are missing key components which are considered standard for top of the line enthusiast hardware. Nothing more, nothing less. You're the one pointing fingers and calling names. As for pricing, Nvidia has not released a product similar to the 690 since the highly unsuccessful 7000 series. The price was not $1000 with absolutely no availability. If you want to claim that the market has changed - so be it. I've claimed the same thing yet you ignore that and continue to accuse me of things I've never said. You also contradict yourself by saying the market has always been this way.

4) Perhaps you've been living under a rock. It's ok to admit that. Let me introduce you to my friends Volterra and 8-pin PCI-E. Both have been standard features for enthusiast cards for the past several generations. I assure you, despite your disbelief, they do exist. Theres another thing we like to call bus width. It tend's to matter when you start pushing extreme work loads on hardware that is already running past it's limits. Maybe you didn't know but part of the price premium for enthusiast grade hardware has always been the extra catering to those of us who actually use our hardware. Again, I never stated anything regarding the value of their current pricing - merely that it does not conform the the established pattern set before it. If you want to assume that means it's "not worth the price of admission" then that's you talking not me. Having a harder time justifying that 690 than you want to admit? PS - you know you cant push 120hz on your panel with a 690, and with all your liquid cooling investment you should be able to OC that 590 close to the performance of a 690.... right? Scratch that, you're clearly just buying what you perceive to be high end for the sheer sake of having what you perceive to be high end.

5) notsureifserious.jpg
AMD's lineup was indeed questioned at the time. It wasn't until horror story rumors started cropping up about fermi being the PC world's incarnation of a George Foreman electric grill. And guess what - Fermi wasn't actually any hotter than previous Nvidia cards. The issue? The previous two generations of AMD cards were actually doing great in performance and for a substantially lower price compared to Nvidia. Everyone and their mom started picking up AMD GPUs. Nvidia never lowered their price to match, AMD raised theirs. By the time those AMD owners wanted an upgrade, seeing the now close pricing between AMD and Nvidia decided to try Nvidia for the first time due to all their notions that AMD drivers were somehow inferior, and thus they started comparing Fermi to what they had established as their norm - 2 generation old cards of an entirely different architecture from another company. Despite all that, not a single soul ever claimed that the 480 was not an enthusiast grade card.

Getting pretty sick of restating the pricing statement, so just use your brain here.

6) you just pulled that entire paragraph out of your ass without reading anything I actually said, didn't you?
Edited by Zero4549 - 5/3/12 at 12:55am
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post #152 of 186
I'm not going to go into too much detail here, but I agree with what zero is saying. There was all that talk about g110 being released, then all of a sudden we get stuck with some g104 crap at prices that should have been reserved for the g110.

I think it's pretty safe to say most people or "the vast majority" actually do feel this way.
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post #153 of 186
Jesus, 999$... That's even more expensive than a 3960X on Amazon...
I get that if you combine 2 500$ cards, you get 1000$, but gee, it's just a lot!

Imagine getting tri-SLI with that. tongue.gif
 
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post #154 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVolta425 View Post

Jesus, 999$... That's even more expensive than a 3960X on Amazon...
I get that if you combine 2 500$ cards, you get 1000$, but gee, it's just a lot!
Imagine getting tri-SLI with that. tongue.gif

Luckily (?) you can't. SLI supports at most 4 GPUs and each of these is a dual-gpu solution, meaning at most you can hook up 2 at once.

The price of the 680 is actually more like 600-700 a piece so 2 of them with better cooling, less consumed space, less consumed power, and less noise (and arguably better sli latency) for 1000 is a steal.

Of course that assumes that the original 680 is actually worth 700 bucks, which is questionable at best.
Edited by Zero4549 - 5/3/12 at 12:52am
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post #155 of 186
@Zero4549, it's safe to say that no matter what you or anyone else says, he's just going to respond by insulting you and ignoring the facts.

When the 680 was released I highlighted reasons why GK104 is a Mid-Range chip, which got promoted to high end status due to the bar being set so low by AMD. There could be other reasons we don't know about, maybe Nvidia was having problems with yields with GK110, or maybe they're holding back so it gets released when AMD releases 8xxx.

Fact remains, GK104 is a mid-range part, delivering high end performance comparable to the competition.

The key specs are the 32 ROP's, 256 bit bus, the crippled FP64, not to mention the NAME of the chip. ( GF104 -> GK104 )

The 680 specs hold no resemblance to the GTX 480/580, but they're eerily similar to the GTX 560TI, it's very obvious.

530

Looking at the above chart, the GK110 part ( GF110 replacement ) would have specs along the lines of:

2304 cores, 384 bit bus, 3GB RAM, 48 ROP's, ~500 mm2 die size, ~250W.
Edited by 2010rig - 5/3/12 at 12:57am
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post #156 of 186
In essence this will be GTX 690 vs a 7990 - Here

It will be like last generation with both cards trading blows, interesting though that arguably the top 2 most demanding games ( Crysis and Metro ) the 7970 is much much faster then the theoretical GTX 690.
post #157 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

@Zero4549, it's safe to say that no matter what you or anyone else says, he's just going to respond by insulting you and ignoring the facts.
When the 680 was released I highlighted reasons why GK104 is a Mid-Range chip, which got promoted to high end status due to the bar being set so low by AMD. There could be other reasons we don't know about, maybe Nvidia was having problems with yields with GK110, or maybe they're holding back so it gets released when AMD releases 8xxx.
Fact remains, GK104 is a mid-range part, delivering high end performance comparable to the competition.
The key specs are the 32 ROP's, 256 bit bus, the crippled FP64, not to mention the NAME of the chip. ( GF104 -> GK104 )
The 680 specs hold no resemblance to the GTX 480/580, but they're eerily similar to the GTX 560TI, it's very obvious.
530
Looking at the above chart, the GK110 part ( GF110 replacement ) would have specs along the lines of:
2304 cores, 384 bit bus, 3GB RAM, 48 ROP's, ~500 mm2 die size, ~250W.

That comparison is fail for one pure and simple reason, the GTX 580 is what Nvidia originally wanted the GTX 480 to be, but due to yield issues they ended up releasing it with lower Cuda cores and clocks.

If every thing was all well and good the GTX 480 would had the originally planned 512SP that the GTX 58 had, making this comparison completely and utterly worthless.
post #158 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

That comparison is fail for one pure and simple reason, the GTX 580 is what Nvidia originally wanted the GTX 480 to be, but due to yield issues they ended up releasing it with lower Cuda cores and clocks.
If every thing was all well and good the GTX 480 would had the originally planned 512SP that the GTX 58 had, making this comparison completely and utterly worthless.

Ok, feel free to ignore the GTX 560 specs compared to the GTX 680 specs, is that fail too?

Should we also ignore the codenames GF104 & GK104. That's probably just coincidence right? rolleyes.gif

633
Edited by 2010rig - 5/3/12 at 1:08am
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post #159 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Ok, feel free to ignore the GTX 560 specs compared to the GTX 680 specs, is that fail too?

Precisely this.

Anyone remember that press release about the "670ti" which was to be "the successor to the 560ti"? You know, the card we now call a 680 and is selling for double the price?
Edited by Zero4549 - 5/3/12 at 1:08am
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post #160 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Luckily (?) you can't. SLI supports at most 4 GPUs and each of these is a dual-gpu solution, meaning at most you can hook up 2 at once.
The price of the 680 is actually more like 600-700 a piece so 2 of them with better cooling, less consumed space, less consumed power, and less noise (and arguably better sli latency) for 1000 is a steal.
Of course that assumes that the original 680 is actually worth 700 bucks, which is questionable at best.

Thanks, I forgot quad sli meant 4 GPUs, not 4 graphic cards, thanks for reminding me. smile.gif

But still, I think that 1000$ for a graphics card is a price worth thinking twice about. I mean, I'd seriously consider two questions: 1) do I seriously need this or is my current graphics card already more than enough? 2) am I really willing to spend a thousand bucks for only the graphics card?
 
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