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[New York Times] How Apple Sidesteps Billions in Taxes - Page 18

post #171 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarin View Post

Intellectual dishonesty with a side of self loathing. How delicious.

If you consider larger tax burdens in order to acquire government services, then sure. It works splendidly. I'm not impeaching their system, however. It is just vastly different. To each their own, and that is what the Aussies want.
I prefer to have as little government in my life as humanly possible; something that is becoming increasingly hard.

Only 'as little government as possible' doesn't work. Dreams are free, but I prefer to live in reality. There's a reason why you have public roads, public schools, industry regulations to make sure you don't get killed using a certain product etc...
post #172 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

My willingness to criticise the conditions and policies of my country and opening my mind to alternatives and solutions is hardly "self-loathing." Glenn Beck much?
Egalitarian social policies are the future. Best start dealing with it now, because the rest of the developed world is already well on its way to achieving this goal and the US will eventually catch up. Sometime.

Exactly. Self-denial is pretty funny. It's cheaper to be egalitarian monetarily and socially as well.
post #173 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

How many more flaws can you get?
1) Not all jobs are manufacturing jobs, most of the economy is service jobs. Y'know, your person who serves your Starbucks latte or your Big Mac or tells you that you look fat in that outfit at The Gap.
2) Firms will hire or fire based on the economy, not based on wages. The minimum wage rate has zero correlation to employment rates. Plenty of examples.
3) Guess what, most workers in the economy and working minimum wage are citizens.
4) As stated, wages cost very little as opposed to commodity costs. Most if not all firms are absorb the extra labour costs. Price increases are far more due to increased commodity costs. If you can't afford it, the ship is already sinking on your business due to lack of cashflow.
5) Machines only replace workers when it is more productive because it results them in increased cashflow making them more money through more production, not because they want to get rid of workers because of their wage costs. More productive also include less time to do a certain thing as time is a factor.
Good to know you haven't studied even high-school economics or been in business yourself.

Ah, but I am an Economic major student.

It is entirely wrong to say wage has nothing to do with employment. Let's say I run a Burger King down the street. I can afford to allocate fixed amount of money on labors, and I am understaffed. Minimum wage does affect on how many people I can hire because I only have fixed amount of money for labors. A higher minimum wage means I can only hire less people. A lower minimum wage means I can hire more people to help out. Unlike other industries, fast food industries are very elastic. If I pass along extra cost (higher minimum wage) to buyers in the form of increased price, I can easily lose a lot of sales.

What I posted is all possible outcomes on higher minimum wages. Of course what will really happen depends on what market sector we are talking about.

You also argue things the wrong way. You say that labor cost is the least cost in business right? Let's take interchange fee for a walk. Interchange fee, aka cost of accepting debit/credit card, is the least cost in a small business. Typically for a business interchange fee is 1.5 to 2% of the transaction amount. Ever wonder why many small businesses don't accept AMEX but gladly accept Visa, MC, and Discover? It is because on average it charges 1% more interchange fee than other three credit card networks. In fact many merchants have such a small profit margin that interchange fee plays a big part in its profit. Part of the Dodd-Frank act laid down restrictions on interchange fee, prohibiting credit card network from charging more than 12 cents per debit card transaction, something merchants fought for.

Finally machine part. I agree with you machines boost productivity significantly. It is wrong however, to say that it has nothing to do with labor cost. Recently, big banks like Chase and Bank of America are experimenting with branches that have no tellers, nothing but computers and ATMs. Local branches are one of the biggest cost for these big banks (this is very true when you compare it to online only banks). It is no surprise why major banks take labor cost very seriously.
Edited by trumpet-205 - 5/1/12 at 3:51pm
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post #174 of 199
But the thing is, as opposed to commodities, labour costs are far less and thus have a much less impact on your business. Not saying they don't have an impact, but more commodity costs have a much larger impact.
post #175 of 199
I say we tax anybody or any company that makes over 1M a year 60%. If they don't like it they can leave, also we should have a vat like tax instead of all these free trade agreements.
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post #176 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptaiNeckBeard View Post

I say we tax anybody or any company that makes over 1M a year 60%. If they don't like it they can leave, also we should have a vat like tax instead of all these free trade agreements.

60% federal tax + at least 7% state tax + VAT (usually 20% where it's implemented) = ~87% income gone in taxes, before including property and other misc local taxes. Go on and implement that and see how it works out.

The city I used to live in tried that. They raised property taxes by a fair amount to help fund the city. All of a sudden, there was a huge influx of middle/upper class families to just over the county line. That counties tax revenue soared (it was already lower then the cities before the increase) and the city lost revenue, causing budget shortfalls greater then before the increased tax. The people who couldn't afford to move or didn't want to move ended up paying more taxes to a city facing a worse budget then before raising the taxes. Raising taxes does not always increase tax revenue. It can easily shrink it.
Edited by Dronac - 5/1/12 at 4:36pm
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post #177 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

60% federal tax + at least 7% state tax + VAT (usually 20% where it's implemented) = ~87% income gone in taxes, before including property and other misc local taxes. Go on and implement that and see how it works out.
The city I used to live in tried that. They raised property taxes by a fair amount to help fund the city. All of a sudden, there was a huge influx of middle/upper class families to just over the county line. That counties tax revenue soared (it was already lower then the cities before the increase) and the city lost revenue, causing budget shortfalls greater then before the increased tax. The people who couldn't afford to move or didn't want to move ended up paying more taxes to a city facing a worse budget then before raising the taxes. Raising taxes does not always increase tax revenue. It can easily shrink it.

I really think anybody that makes over 1M can adjust their budget for the taxes. Sorry if they have to cut back and get a Chevy or ford instead of a BMW or Mercedes.
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post #178 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptaiNeckBeard View Post

I really think anybody that makes over 1M can adjust their budget for the taxes. Sorry if they have to cut back and get a Chevy or ford instead of a BMW or Mercedes.

This is an asinine argument.

What's the incentive for anyone to be this productive if they do not get to reap the rewards? If I don't get anything from making more than 50k a year, I'm going to do the absolute minimum needed to make 50k a year, or I'll move elsewhere.

Such a degree of progressive tax would remove the bulk of revenues and potentially collapse whole economies, to everyone's disadvantage.
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post #179 of 199
Any big corporation does this..

There's no reason to be surprised here. Any of you running a company would do the same thing if you could.

Let's see.. do I want billions of dollars or do I not want to be "frowned upon" by a handful of people. I think I'll go with the billions of dollars.

Most people will never hear about this or give a you know what even if they did.
Edited by Kaldari - 5/1/12 at 5:46pm
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post #180 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

Mitt Romney does not pay 15% income taxes. That's what he pays in capital gains tax, which happens to be his primary source of revenue. There is a reason capital gains tax is what it is. In investing, gains have to be weighed against taxes and risk. Raise the tax rate, and the acceptable risk must be lowered for the investment to make sense. Raise the tax too much, and investing is no longer a wise thing to do with your money. In that case, someone who has enough money to live off the investment gains, also has enough to simply live off what he has, which is even worse for the economy as less tax revenue is generated, and no businesses have investors to fund them. The point of a low capital gains rate is not to let the rich pay less in tax, but to encourage investment. It should also be noted that you don't need to be rich to take advantage of this. Start investing early, and compound interest will do beautiful things to your account.

Not sure about the capital gains tax, I was referring to workarounds the wealthy can afford to do to save themselves money on taxes. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/us/politics/romneys-tax-returns-show-21-6-million-income-in-10.html?pagewanted=all

Quote:
Originally Posted by homestyle View Post

this thread is also about corporations not individuals. this thread is about apple, not amazon.
gasp.
how dare i expand the topic on post #163.

If you were addressing/responding to another post you should have quoted it. It simply looked like you were changing the subject.
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