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[New York Times] How Apple Sidesteps Billions in Taxes - Page 19

post #181 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptaiNeckBeard View Post

I really think anybody that makes over 1M can adjust their budget for the taxes. Sorry if they have to cut back and get a Chevy or ford instead of a BMW or Mercedes.

Sure, they probably could, but what's the point of a upper class income if you only get a middle class lifestyle? Your working mostly for the benefit of the state, rather then your own, in which case, why bother? Altruism? Charity? That's not how the world works. I don't know about you, but I don't get up and go to work for the betterment of society or to bring in revenue for the state. I get up and go to work for a paycheck.

If income over $1 million was taxed to the levels your suggesting, why bother giving it to the employee? Why not just forward any income above 1 million directly to the government? Obviously, it's a poor business move to directly send off money for no gain whatsoever, so income is effectively capped at 1 million. Consider this: instead of an executive making $50 million, he now makes $1 million (good move for the company and is better then "wasting" 49 million in taxes) since the effective tax rate is around 80-85% under this huge tax change. Even if he was paying just 15% in taxes before, that's FAR more then he is paying now in taxes making $1 million. The government loses tax revenue.
Edited by Dronac - 5/1/12 at 6:05pm
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post #182 of 199
Why earn more if you have to pay higher taxes? Because you still make way more then the shmuck at the lowest tax brackets after taxes. 50k with 30% taxes is 35k after taxes. So why better yourself if earning 100k a year moves you into 40% tax brackets? Because you still pull in 60k after taxes, almost double the 50k earner at the lower tax bracket. And why improve yourself further and earn 500k at 50% taxes? Because you still took home 250k. And why go for the 1mill earnings at 60% taxes? Because you still took home 400k.

Are you people that bad at math?
post #183 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Why earn more if you have to pay higher taxes? Because you still make way more then the shmuck at the lowest tax brackets after taxes. 50k with 30% taxes is 35k after taxes. So why better yourself if earning 100k a year moves you into 40% tax brackets? Because you still pull in 60k after taxes, almost double the 50k earner at the lower tax bracket. And why improve yourself further and earn 500k at 50% taxes? Because you still took home 250k. And why go for the 1mill earnings at 60% taxes? Because you still took home 400k.
Are you people that bad at math?

Tax brackets are not retroactive. If the rate for $1 million was 60%, it only applies to every dollar earned above 1 million. Yes, you have more money, but face massive diminishing returns. There reaches a point where effort does not justify a reward.
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post #184 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

Tax brackets are not retroactive. If the rate for $1 million was 60%, it only applies to every dollar earned above 1 million. Yes, you have more money, but face massive diminishing returns. There reaches a point where effort does not justify a reward.

466

There were plenty of rich people when tax rates were 70-90% in the 50's through 70's. Saying there's no point in earning a lot of money at 60% income tax rate is rubbish. I'm not saying it should be 70-90%, but I'm not against raising it a bit right now for the extremely rich, especially when we're at an all time high in the divide between the poor and rich. And it isn't because 99% of the country is stupid or lazy (I'd estimate that to be around 40%).

Taxs are near all-time lows, the divide between rich and poor is at an all-time high, and the country isn't exactly swimming in money, it's debt is also at an all-time high. And surprise surprise, all the rich people want to stay rich and keep taxes low for themselves. There isn't a direct correlation between all of these, as was shown by the boom in the 90's, but booms like the .com boom aren't always going to happen.

Also, notice the great depression followed a period of low and falling tax rates, in which the rich thrived. Most people are educated enough to know these things, or haven't been alive long enough to remember it.
Edited by lordikon - 5/1/12 at 6:37pm
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post #185 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

466
There were plenty of rich people when tax rates were 70-90% in the 50's through 70's. Saying there's no point in earning a lot of money at 60% income tax rate is rubbish. I'm not saying it should be 70-90%, but I'm not against raising it a bit right now for the extremely rich, especially when we're at an all time high in the divide between the poor and rich. And it isn't because 99% of the country is stupid or lazy (I'd estimate that to be around 40%).
Taxs are near all-time lows, the divide between rich and poor is at an all-time high, and the country isn't exactly swimming in money, it's debt is also at an all-time high. And surprise surprise, all the rich people want to stay rich and keep taxes low for themselves. There isn't a direct correlation between all of these, as was shown by the boom in the 90's, but booms like the .com boom aren't always going to happen.
Also, notice the great depression followed a period of low and falling tax rates, in which the rich thrived. Most people are educated enough to know these things, or haven't been alive long enough to remember it.

That was also the reason the AMT was established. With rates that high, coupled with the ways to avoid taxes and preserve income, no one was actually paying rates like that. At 90%, your not actually making anything after you factor in state/local/sales taxes. Again: higher taxes =! always equal higher tax revenue.


This graph shows top marginal rates over tax revenue (in % of GDP).
280
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post #186 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaRocker View Post

Edit: Please keep politics out of this thread.

Creates thread about taxes. Says not to talk about politics.....





This is why OCN(At least its administration) is stupid. People get mad when politics try to censor us, but we should censor, and try to ignore, the politics that affect the world we live in today. Genius.

Awaiting an infraction.
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post #187 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

Tax brackets are not retroactive. If the rate for $1 million was 60%, it only applies to every dollar earned above 1 million. Yes, you have more money, but face massive diminishing returns. There reaches a point where effort does not justify a reward.

Then that supports what I'm saying even better. Someone is always going to be better off making more money even if that money gets taxed at a higher bracket because after taxes they will still have more money to spend then the guy who earns less.

So I still see no merit to the argument that there is no incentive to earn more with a progressive tax rate. There is always going to be incentive to earn more so long as a portion of those higher earnings remain after taxes.
post #188 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

That was also the reason the AMT was established. With rates that high, coupled with the ways to avoid taxes and preserve income, no one was actually paying rates like that. At 90%, your not actually making anything after you factor in state/local/sales taxes. Again: higher taxes =! always equal higher tax revenue.
This graph shows top marginal rates over tax revenue (in % of GDP).
280

That I can agree with. This is why I was saying that we should start closing tax loopholes before doing anything to tax rate. It would be nice to have an income tax rate that reflected actual taxing of income, and that was somewhat proportional to the national tax revenue.
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post #189 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Then that supports what I'm saying even better. Someone is always going to be better off making more money even if that money gets taxed at a higher bracket because after taxes they will still have more money to spend then the guy who earns less.
So I still see no merit to the argument that there is no incentive to earn more with a progressive tax rate. There is always going to be incentive to earn more so long as a portion of those higher earnings remain after taxes.

If you were offered the chance to put in more hours at work (or whatever metric you want to use for more effort), but you would be making less and less as you did more, would you keep working? At what point is your time more valuable then the compensation? Personally, I highly value my free time. I typically avoid overtime even though I'm in a very low tax bracket. If I were in a very high tax bracket, I just wouldn't bother as the incentive pay is not enough. In a higher income example, this may be turning down a promotion to a position requiring weekly travel with higher pay. The higher income is offset by taxes, which must be weighed into the decision as to if the promotion is worth accepting. Depending on the person's priorities and tax bracket, the "promotion" could end up being alot more responsibility for not much personal gain.
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post #190 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dronac View Post

If you were offered the chance to put in more hours at work (or whatever metric you want to use for more effort), but you would be making less and less as you did more, would you keep working? At what point is your time more valuable then the compensation? Personally, I highly value my free time. I typically avoid overtime even though I'm in a very low tax bracket. If I were in a very high tax bracket, I just wouldn't bother as the incentive pay is not enough. In a higher income example, this may be turning down a promotion to a position requiring weekly travel with higher pay. The higher income is offset by taxes, which must be weighed into the decision as to if the promotion is worth accepting. Depending on the person's priorities and tax bracket, the "promotion" could end up being alot more responsibility for not much personal gain.

Work smarter, not harder. My hours have not changed much in the last 8 years, my pay has changed dramatically though.
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