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post #101 of 329
The Source for this thread is not working anymore. Does someone have another link maybe...


My 2 cents: Personally I think Llano and especially brazos have done very well for AMD and that is why they are putting so much time into these APUs. AMD firmly believes (and I do too) that the future is all about their fusion and HSA concept and integrating their SOC (system on a chip). If AMD continues down the road they are headed they are going to do very well for themselves.

The reason we do not see great performance out of the Bulldozer chips is because a) they are architected for APUs, no CPUs and b) it is a dramatically different 1st generation architecture which AMD has not done in a very long time. The whole point of the Bulldozer architecture if you understand it is that with the two heavy integer cores and the single weak FPU on each module is designed to offload most of the FSU workloads onto the iGPU because the iGPU is much more efficient with crunching FPU workloads while the CPU is much more efficient with integer workloads. It is a brilliant plan but we will not see the full potential of this until AMD fully integrates their HSA ( Heterogeneous System Architecture) concept into their APUs. Basically once AMD has physically made the CPU and GPU fully work together on the die with both CPU and GPU will full access to the whole system we will then see AMDs APU begin to really shine. AMD's 3rd gen APU plans to have the CPU and iGPU have full access to all system ram while both being more tightly designed for much better communication between the two processors. Once the 4th gen APU comes around with 4th gen Bulldozer arch along with a very strong iGPU with amazing GCN GPU compute capablities that are both basically built as one processor rather than two side by side, AMD should be very close to fully implementing their HSA concept.

I personally think that what AMD is doing is the best thing for them. They know all the money is in the mobile market and they are getting a headstart with their fully integrated system on a chip HSA plans knowing that the future depends on very low cost highly efficient powerful multi-capable microprocessors. AMD is on that path and so is Intel but Intel is going to hit a wall before AMD does which is already taking place as we see with Ivy. Intel will run into a point where they will have to completely change their plans because raw CPU power just wont cut it anymore. Intel Quick Sync is kind of where they are getting started implementing other multi processing capabilities on the same chip. Intel will eventualy need to integrate the CPU and GPU together like AMD is because where it is today with the CPU and GPU basically completely seperate we hit a point where performance just can't increase. These ideas of fully implemented systems on a single chips is the most efficient cost effective solution and if they can integratge them well enough so that their intercommunication is instant we should start seeing some really nice performance from APU that will be on a completely different level as far as processing goes than we have today.

If you research into why AMD is using Bulldozer architecture and understand it and AMDs HSA concept then you will see that AMD future does look pretty bright.... All they got to do now is just keep working hard.

334
Edited by mikezachlowe2004 - 5/1/12 at 6:21pm
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post #102 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon19932006 View Post

Your a bit hard to understand, but let me give this a go.
1. Llano is the phenom type core, Trinity is "piledriver" (bulldozer 2.0)
2. There was no shrink, it's still 32nm just like Llano.
3. Boy is trinity an apu beast? Yes, yes it is smile.gif


Llano is a stars (K10) core which is from athlon not phenom and yes trinity will be 32nm and Kaveri, Kabini and Temash (3rd gen) will be 28nm. Hondo and Brazos are still on 40nm process.

And yes Trinity is a beast simply because it is very cheap and has amazing performance for the price. Most people looking to buy computers are looking for a decently priced decently performing computer and with Trinity they have just that. AMD is going to do well this year for sure.

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post #103 of 329
Lets see..
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

AMD doesn't have their own fab's, they've always had to sub-contract the fab
You mean the fabs they spun off to GF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

killing Intel in terms of CPU performance 5-7 years ago.
You mean after core 2 was launched?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Apple sub-contracts its fab of hardware out.
are you saying apple actually designs hardware?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

their APUs continue to gain ground and displace similar offerings.
You mean the way their portable market share is still falling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

They can barely produce enough to satisfy demand.
Whose fault is that, haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

they would have entered into that contract with them in the first place, and had to buy themselves out?
The contract was pretty much a pre mandate for GF to exist
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Do you remember (or were you even alive) when AMD was slaughtering Intel in terms of performance?
yea.. but given that you didnt get well.. anything right in your wall of text you must be 10 tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed117 View Post

Well said. thumb.gif
lachen.gif
post #104 of 329
Ah Trinity is FM and Vishera is AM3+. Hope the trinity prices are not too high as I think I will get myself a FM system now. than I will have AM3 / AM3+ / FM smile.gif
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post #105 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazarada View Post

Lets see..
You mean the fabs they spun off to GF?
You mean after core 2 was launched?
are you saying apple actually designs hardware?
You mean the way their portable market share is still falling?
Whose fault is that, haha
The contract was pretty much a pre mandate for GF to exist
yea.. but given that you didnt get well.. anything right in your wall of text you must be 10 tongue.gif
lachen.gif

AMD recognized they never had expertise fab. AMD performance reigned until core2. Apple does design their own hardware--that's what they do. Where did you think their products come from? AMD's mobile market share is falling? That's news to me--got a source? Because for the last two quarters they've been steadily gaining market share. 7 years ago, Intel had space-heating P4's, Pentium D's and Celeron D's--AMD was cleaning the floor with them in terms of performance. Unless we're talking about a DIFFERENT 7 years ago? Fine, Core2duos came out in late 2006--just shy of 7 years ago. Sorry, I didn't think that a general approximation of time would mean such a big deal. rolleyes.gif
    
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post #106 of 329
trinity is lano follow up.piledriver is bulldozer follow up .dont mix very different. lano and trinity rule.bulldozer number were meh.pildriver nobody know yet.piledriver is a cpu.trinity is a cpugpu(aka apu) ill get a trinity but i will wait a while to know piledriver number
Edited by drbaltazar - 5/1/12 at 9:15pm
post #107 of 329
Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.

IGP-mobile.png


Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.
post #108 of 329
mikezachlowe2004
You are very correct in your analysis. AMD needs to outthink Intel. AMD needs to do a good job with evangelizing HSA and OpenCL / DirectCompute. They need to be getting more companies like Adobe, Microsoft, Symantec, Corel to write software exploiting the APU's FP and GPGPU capabilities. Then they will be in a position to leapfrog Intel without getting into a CPU IPC race which is detrimental to AMD given the manufacturing advantage of Intel and its much larger resources.smile.gif
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post #109 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.
IGP-mobile.png
Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.

I thought that too, until you read farther down, that's not Llano's fastest mobile gpu vs an i7 and the llano is bottlenecked with 1333 memory. So yes the HD 4000 is doing very well but not quite as well as that graph shows. I would hardly call an 50- 60% increase on Intels graphics half hearted either. I would agree though, that AMD needs to stay on its A game, the stuff coming out on Haswell is very interesting, l4 cache dedicated to the Igpu sounds good. Something that maybe AMD should be looking at, who knows for sure. Also Trinity should be out very soon to compete directly with Ivy bridge mobile, rumored in two weeks, we'll see how HD 4000 compares to current gen then, instead of last years tech.
Quote:
Granted, the A8-3500M/3520M aren't the fastest Llano parts, and the Llano systems we tested were both using DDR3-1333 memory. Give Llano an MX part and faster memory and performance should improve around 20% (5-10% for the RAM, and 10-15% for the CPU).

Edited by fantasyalive - 5/1/12 at 10:03pm
post #110 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbaltazar View Post

trinity is lano follow up.piledriver is bulldozer follow up .dont mix very different. lano and trinity rule.bulldozer number were meh.pildriver nobody know yet.piledriver is a cpu.trinity is a cpugpu(aka apu) ill get a trinity but i will wait a while to know piledriver number

Trinity is the followup to Llano but uses Piledriver modules, so they're very related. You should read the source thumb.gif
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