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post #111 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

AMD recognized they never had expertise fab. AMD performance reigned until core2. Apple does design their own hardware--that's what they do. Where did you think their products come from? AMD's mobile market share is falling? That's news to me--got a source? Because for the last two quarters they've been steadily gaining market share. 7 years ago, Intel had space-heating P4's, Pentium D's and Celeron D's--AMD was cleaning the floor with them in terms of performance. Unless we're talking about a DIFFERENT 7 years ago? Fine, Core2duos came out in late 2006--just shy of 7 years ago. Sorry, I didn't think that a general approximation of time would mean such a big deal. rolleyes.gif

I kid you not, I choked on my cookies when I read that....
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post #112 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.
IGP-mobile.png
Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.

Compare relevant products in same product segment and same price bands. By that I mean

Desktop
Ivy Bridge Core i3 vs Trinity A10 5800K/5700 and AMD A8-5600K/5500
Ivy Bridge Core i5/i7 vs Vishera (will be out in late Q3)

Mobile
IvyBridge Core i3 and low end i5 vs Trinity A10-4600M 35w
Ivybridge Core i3 / i5 vs Trinity A10 / A8 17w / 25w

AMD does not have products which compete with high end mobile i5 and mobile i7. They are clear about their strategy in targetting the volume part of the market.USD 400 - 700 with Brazos 2.0 and Trinity. AMD will be competitive in the product segments they directly compete. FYI I will link you to a desktop HD 4000 vs Llano HD 6550.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/9

The HD 4000 is slaughtered in Total War Shogun 2, Portal 2, Civilization V. In Crysis Warhead, BF3 Llano HD 6550 is 30% faster. Trinity should improve on that. Wait for Trinity launch and reviews pitting mobile Ivybridge Core i3 / i5 vs mobile AMD A10 / A8 and desktop Core i3 vs desktop AMD A10 / A8. biggrin.gif
Edited by raghu78 - 5/1/12 at 10:33pm
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post #113 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.
IGP-mobile.png
Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.

LOL, and a desktop i7-3770K is a comparable chip to standard mobile APUs either? (the 3770K is pretty much the only IB CPU you see being used in HD4K benchmark reviews).

The problem with the numbers (wherever those came from, and whatever they mean--it's truly one of the worst representations of performance indications I've ever seen) is that performance comparisons between the HD4K and AMD APUs are generally done at 1024x768 and low game settings (most of the reviews I quickly come across are)--at those settings, the games are CPU-bound, so of course the i7-3xxxK will cream the performance numbers. Turn up the detail--even to medium--and you find that the HD4K falls toward the not-so-playable range while the APUs retain playable framerates in a lot of games. Even the 6620 pulls ahead in many situations. In other games, they sometimes trade blows, but not frequently enough to claim that the HD4K is better. Not to mention the RAM speed issues already addressed by others.
    
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post #114 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhaoticKomputing View Post

I kid you not, I choked on my cookies when I read that....

Why? I'm not talking about processors, I'm talking about the hardware they sell. Did anyone read Steve Job's biography...?
    
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post #115 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Why? I'm not talking about processors, I'm talking about the hardware they sell. Did anyone read Steve Job's biography...?

Well that statement was VERY open ended. However we should wait until after this round of lawsuits hits apple to see if this is actually correct. As it stands more than one company is either A) currently suing apple on hardware patent infringement. Or B) getting in line to sue over said patent infringement. Time will tell though:)

And no I have not/will not ever read his biography. I refuse to do anything with apple tech, or do anything that make's them money(including but not limited to using their hardware at work/home/school/freetime.... If my work suddenly started using apple's stuff I would leave. Immediately...) Mind you these are my personal opinions and view's. They are not meant to hurt anyones feelings or start a flame war. Please take them with an exponentially growing* pile of salt.



*wiki link
Edited by KhaoticKomputing - 5/1/12 at 10:38pm
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post #116 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.
IGP-mobile.png
Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.

So comparing Intel's third generation of iGPU graphics, to AMD's first somehow makes Intel's better? From several sources around the net AMD's second generation of iGPU (Trinity) should have at least a 50% gain over Intel 4KHD. So any way you slice the cake AMD is miles ahead of Intel in that department.
Edited by Warmonger - 5/1/12 at 10:38pm
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post #117 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhaoticKomputing View Post

Well that statement was VERY open ended. However we should wait until after this round of lawsuits hits apple to see if this is actually correct. As it stands more than one company is either A) currently suing apple on hardware patent infringement. Or B) getting in line to sue over said patent infringement. Time will tell though:)
And no I have not/will not ever read his biography. I refuse to do anything with apple tech, or do anything that make's them money(including but not limited to using their hardware at work/home/school/freetime.... If my work suddenly started using apple's stuff I would leave. Immediately...) Mind you these are my personal opinions and view's. They are not meant to hurt anyones feelings or start a flame war. Please take them with an exponentially growing* pile of salt.
*wiki link

Its not open ended at all. Apple designs the products they later have manufactured and then sell. Pending patent litigation has no bearing on that. Who did you think designs Apple products? Sony?
    
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post #118 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Its not open ended at all. Apple designs the products they later have manufactured and then sell. Pending patent litigation has no bearing on that. Who did you think designs Apple products? Sony?

No not Sony...At least they haven't claimed apple is has "stolen" any of their ideas/ tech:) Lots of their tech is not new, or cutting edge, look at their PC's for instance. Its normal hardware that they Approve of... They do design hardware, but I'm also positive they have other company's design some of it for them.
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post #119 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

LOL, and a desktop i7-3770K is a comparable chip to standard mobile APUs either? (the 3770K is pretty much the only IB CPU you see being used in HD4K benchmark reviews).
The problem with the numbers (wherever those came from, and whatever they mean--it's truly one of the worst representations of performance indications I've ever seen) is that performance comparisons between the HD4K and AMD APUs are generally done at 1024x768 and low game settings (most of the reviews I quickly come across are)--at those settings, the games are CPU-bound, so of course the i7-3xxxK will cream the performance numbers. Turn up the detail--even to medium--and you find that the HD4K falls toward the not-so-playable range while the APUs retain playable framerates in a lot of games. Even the 6620 pulls ahead in many situations. In other games, they sometimes trade blows, but not frequently enough to claim that the HD4K is better. Not to mention the RAM speed issues already addressed by others.

All Ivy CPUs (including i3) for laptop use HD4000. Don't know why people thinks that HD4000 is for i7-3770K only.

And I thought we are talking about mobile version are we not? In that case high speed RAM is out of question, since to make laptop appealing few (if any) manufacturers will include high speed RAM in their laptops. And it is not like majority of laptop users will spend more money afterwards on getting faster RAMs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Compare relevant products in same product segment and same price bands. By that I mean
Desktop
Ivy Bridge Core i3 vs Trinity A10 5800K/5700 and AMD A8-5600K/5500
Ivy Bridge Core i5/i7 vs Vishera (will be out in late Q3)
Mobile
IvyBridge Core i3 and low end i5 vs Trinity A10-4600M 35w
Ivybridge Core i3 / i5 vs Trinity A10 / A8 17w / 25w
AMD does not have products which compete with high end mobile i5 and mobile i7. They are clear about their strategy in targetting the volume part of the market.USD 400 - 700 with Brazos 2.0 and Trinity. AMD will be competitive in the product segments they directly compete. FYI I will link you to a desktop HD 4000 vs Llano HD 6550.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/9
The HD 4000 is slaughtered in Total War Shogun 2, Portal 2, Civilization V. In Crysis Warhead, BF3 Llano HD 6550 is 30% faster. Trinity should improve on that. Wait for Trinity launch and reviews pitting mobile Ivybridge Core i3 / i5 vs mobile AMD A10 / A8 and desktop Core i3 vs desktop AMD A10 / A8. biggrin.gif

PoopaScoopa is comparing an mobile version of Ivy to mobile version of Llano. All Ivy CPUs (including i3) for laptop use HD4000.

All the sudden you bring out desktop comparison? kookoo.gif
Edited by trumpet-205 - 5/1/12 at 11:11pm
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post #120 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Llano reviewers don't like to use the mobile version in comparisons. The lower TDP causes them to perform quite badly. They need the bloated power of a desktop model to compete with Intel.
IGP-mobile.png
Now that Intel beats Llano in both IPC and GPU performance, even with a half-hearted attempt at integrating a GPU, Haswell is just going to make matters worse. Haswell is where they they finally make a serious effort at integrating a GPU on die. At that point, what does AMD have to offer anymore? Hope they don't think Trinity's extra ~10 fps in laptops is going to save them.

That's really pathetic of you to take a graph out of context. 100% is parity between the 2, as mentioned here. HD 4000 wins some, loses some against 6620G. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5772/mobile-ivy-bridge-and-asus-n56vm-preview/6

The official record states: Average of 15 games as tested, 6620G scores 36.4 FPS, HD 4000 scores 36.2 FPS.578
Edited by jrbroad77 - 5/1/12 at 11:19pm
 
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