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[VR-Zone] AMD Trinity APU Preview: Evolution or Devolution? - Page 21  

post #201 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

If AMD still owned TSMC they would be gaining money because it's their fab, GF wouldn't be screwing up their chips with bad yields & leaky hot running CPU's,so just maybe AMD wouldn't be in such a huge mess as they are in now.

Your post makes little sense.

1) AMD never owned TSMC.

2) How does AMD owning or not owning Globalfoundries have any effect on how their yields for 32nm turned out? Fabs aren't perfect all the time. TSMC encountered issues with their 40nm, and GF had problems with 32nm. If you look further back into history, 130nm wasn't too great for TSMC either. (Nvidia in particular got burned by TSMC's 130nm problems.)

3) Fabs are not cheap to run. Do you really think AMD would be in a better position if they had to deal with fab costs along with their own internal management issues?
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post #202 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Intel people really shouldn't be worried. HD4000 was a 60% increase from HD3000. Intel is improving their IGP much faster then AMD at this point. Haswell will bring it even closer and Intel already has a huge advantage on the CPU side. In fact I'd say the CPU side advantage Intel has is way more insurmountable then the GPU advantage AMD has. We already know IPC increases are becoming harder and harder to achieve. Intel has a gigantic RnD budget and what is widely considered the best fabs in the world. There's a reason no one else is shipping 22nm processors or GPUs right now. AMD has a built in advantage with ATI but I'd still rather be in Intel's position with 80+% of the current market and all manufacturers totally on board.
Until AMD learns how to build fabs that are on pars with Intels which they won't because they aren't even trying they really don't represent a threat. It's just the way things are whether it's right or not.
Also performance on these APUs is pretty godawful and nothing to really brag about. On both sides.

Yes Intel is the market leader with 80% and yes they have a huge manufacturing advantge. But the future is not going to be just a CPU IPC based rat race. The future is about SOC performance. Its about architecture.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amd-adobe-r-creative-suite-120000551.html

AMD is going to use HSA and OpenCL / DirectCompute to gain competitive advantage. Wait for AMD Fusion Developer Summit 2012. You will see how much progress AMD is making in that direction. Where is Intel's vision for architectural integration of CPU & GPU. All they are doing is throwing more silicon at the problem. But the problem of GPU compute or GPGPU is an architectural one. The software stack too matters. How good is Haswell gonna be against GCN in GPGPU . GCN has been shown to be a compute powerhouse. By 2014 AMD APUs would have achieved full architectural integration of GPU with CPU.

334

And yes for people who don't know GPU's are not just for games. They are massively parallel compute devices which are being used nowadays across a wide range of applications. So the future is not as bad as people seem to think for AMD smile.gif
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post #203 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

I specifically said AMD didn't have their own fabs. What's up with the collective victim syndrome with AMD fans on this site? I thought Nvidia fans with their superiority complexes were the worst but you guys take the cake. No one can post an opinion without being blasted here.
Anyway I do in fact think that what AMD doing overall with their relatively tiny budget is pretty impressive. But putting all that aside I really think AMD's biggest problem is their production capabilities. As I said earlier whether it's right or wrong they've lost before they even jump out of the gate no matter what they do.

I know you did, my comments were not directed at you. I just used your quote. I agree with you.

AMD no longer has production problems. All that has moved fully over to GF.

Go here to find out exactly what AMD has done and where they are headed since most of you intel fans have no idea:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/AMD-Q1-2012-Earnings-Analysis-Looking-Back-and-Looking-Forward

This article explains it all and there shouldn't have to be anymore arguments about it. Why these people just hate AMD is beyond me. If it wasnt for AMD we'd still be working with 800Mhz Single core processors. Personally I find it kind of hard to support a company (intel) that makes $10-15 billion every three months. That doesnt mean that I dont use more Intel processors for my builds. Id just rather support the underdog and always will because it reflects a better cheaper product in the long run for the end user. Why people are constantly raving how much better intel is than AMD is beyond me. Everyone in the world knows this so whats the point of repeating and repeating it over and over again. Intel is better than AMD - fact (as of right now). Does this make you guys feel better hearing it. We all know intel is better so stop trying to prove it. There is no need. But you got to give AMD some credit for hanging with a such a huge multi-billion dollar company for so many years. They deserve the credit. They have been through a lot more hard times than Intel has and thats why I support them more than Intel but overall I do support the both of them because they do provide us with leading-edge technology for the future.

It really boggles my mind that you guys rant and rave about how a multi-billion dollar company is so much better than a multi-million dollar company. Some of these posts have to be a part of some kind of big joke or something. To sit there and actually get your rocks off about that is pathetic.
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post #204 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Yes Intel is the market leader with 80% and yes they have a huge manufacturing advantge. But the future is not going to be just a CPU IPC based rat race. The future is about SOC performance. Its about architecture.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amd-adobe-r-creative-suite-120000551.html

Whoa, nice find man. +rep

Only reason I went with Nvidia a couple years ago was because of the Mercury Playback Engine being CUDA only. I'm looking forward to some benchmarks on how this works out for AMD, and how they compare to Nvidia's optimizations.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/premiere-pro-cs6.html
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post #205 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Yes Intel is the market leader with 80% and yes they have a huge manufacturing advantge. But the future is not going to be just a CPU IPC based rat race. The future is about SOC performance. Its about architecture.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amd-adobe-r-creative-suite-120000551.html
AMD is going to use HSA and OpenCL / DirectCompute to gain competitive advantage. Wait for AMD Fusion Developer Summit 2012. You will see how much progress AMD is making in that direction. Where is Intel's vision for architectural integration of CPU & GPU. All they are doing is throwing more silicon at the problem. But the problem of GPU compute or GPGPU is an architectural one. The software stack too matters. How good is Haswell gonna be against GCN in GPGPU . GCN has been shown to be a compute powerhouse. By 2014 AMD APUs would have achieved full architectural integration of GPU with CPU.
334
And yes for people who don't know GPU's are not just for games. They are massively parallel compute devices which are being used nowadays across a wide range of applications. So the future is not as bad as people seem to think for AMD smile.gif

This is absolutely correct and very well said. +rep

It seems that posts similar to this have been in previous pages but they just dont get it. They just keep talking about Intel cpu power and thats about all they know and now that intel has increased GPU performance by 50% since last gen its like intel has taken over the world so we might as well be non-profit intel cheerleaders. Intel CPU is great and works very well but there is going to come a point (in the not too distant future) that raw cpu power just doesnt cut it. This is why AMD is already heading full steam into that direction. Thats what yunz guys need to understand but refuse because you got wheee.gif "intel cpu power syndrome" wheee.gif and just can't fathom anything else that is going on around yunz.
Edited by mikezachlowe2004 - 5/2/12 at 7:56pm
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post #206 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

I know you did, my comments were not directed at you. I just used your quote. I agree with you.
AMD no longer has production problems. All that has moved fully over to GF.
Go here to find out exactly what AMD has done and where they are headed since most of you intel fans have no idea:
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/AMD-Q1-2012-Earnings-Analysis-Looking-Back-and-Looking-Forward
This article explains it all and there shouldn't have to be anymore arguments about it. Why these people just hate AMD is beyond me. If it wasnt for AMD we'd still be working with 800Mhz Single core processors. Personally I find it kind of hard to support a company (intel) that makes $10-15 billion every three months. That doesnt mean that I dont use more Intel processors for my builds. Id just rather support the underdog and always will because it reflects a better cheaper product in the long run for the end user. Why people are constantly raving how much better intel is than AMD is beyond me. Everyone in the world knows this so whats the point of repeating and repeating it over and over again. Intel is better than AMD - fact (as of right now). Does this make you guys feel better hearing it. We all know intel is better so stop trying to prove it. There is no need. But you got to give AMD some credit for hanging with a such a huge multi-billion dollar company for so many years. They deserve the credit. They have been through a lot more hard times than Intel has and thats why I support them more than Intel but overall I do support the both of them because they do provide us with leading-edge technology for the future.
It really boggles my mind that you guys rant and rave about how a multi-billion dollar company is so much better than a multi-million dollar company. Some of these posts have to be a part of some kind of big joke or something. To sit there and actually get your rocks off about that is pathetic.
AMD can't get enough product out of the door to even start to compete with Intel.
If it wasn't for AMD we wouldn't be any further behind than where we are now,do some reserach and you'll find it was AMD who reverse engineered Intel's CPU and not until much later they started making their own designs. Intel couldn't push a 800Mhz single core onto us for over 10 years with no changes,it just wouldn't be possible.
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post #207 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

AMD can't get enough product out of the door to even start to compete with Intel.

They can now that they're not bogged down with their relationship to GloFo.
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post #208 of 329
It's a sad day when I have to comb through all this **** hoping for useful information on a product WHICH THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

If anyone would like to get on topics such as crossfire compatibility, overclocking, and benchmarks, OF TRINITY I'd love to hear your thoughts.
post #209 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

AMD can't get enough product out of the door to even start to compete with Intel.
If it wasn't for AMD we wouldn't be any further behind than where we are now,do some reserach and you'll find it was AMD who reverse engineered Intel's CPU and not until much later they started making their own designs. Intel couldn't push a 800Mhz single core onto us for over 10 years with no changes,it just wouldn't be possible.

Production has increased exponentially. They have plenty of stock for all their products now. They have basically minimal problems with production now. Do the research.

and for the other statement, I guess you cant even comprehend sarcasm. I guess I will just stop posting since its only confusing to you. My previous post still applies. EVERYONE ALREADY KNOW INTEL IS BETTER THAN AMD. Why do you keep announcing it?????? Again, previous post still applies, especially for you.
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post #210 of 329
Sorry but pointing to roadmaps three years out doesn't convince me. Intel right now is promsing a 20X power reduction and discrete GPU level graphics in haswell. We'll see how it all pans out. All I can comment on concretely is what is going on right now and in the next few months. The buzz right now with manufacturers is Ivy period. AMD has a long way to go before they are relevant again. Their share price is still sitting at sub-10 dollars.

See my problem with you guys arguments is not neccesarily about the performance of Trinity but the fact that you are hyping it as a high volume product that is going to change the notebook industry. So far there is no indication anywhere that laptop manufacturers are going to be switching from Intel to AMD. AMD has to release multiple successful chips before that will even begin to happen and put their company on a path toward stability. Right now they are still not a safe bet. Several industry insiders on Beyond3d have noted that Microsoft is nervous about entering into a contract for the 720 GPU with AMD because of their financial position. This is the point.
    
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