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120hz IPS vs 120hz TN

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
The 120hz IPS panels will be available real soon again so id like to know if they can handle the full 120hz. I know its possible with the GTX680 but can the monitor itself handle it? IPS pixels switch much more slowly than those on a TN panel. In the case of the Yamakasi Catleaps do they become noticeably more blurry during fast color changes and in game movement? i realize on paper an IPS at 120hz will be inferior but is it actually noticeable in game? take BF3 for example, it's fast paced, can you cant track an object as you look around on an IPS at 120hz? Does the lack of overdrive in the Catleaps make a big difference as well? Catleaps can do 120hz but are not made for them, however BenQ and others design their monitors for the fast frame rates. How much better are they? thanks
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post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello im sean View Post

The 120hz IPS panels will be available real soon again so id like to know if they can handle the full 120hz. I know its possible with the GTX680 but can the monitor itself handle it? IPS pixels switch much more slowly than those on a TN panel. In the case of the Yamakasi Catleaps do they become noticeably more blurry during fast color changes and in game movement? i realize on paper an IPS at 120hz will be inferior but is it actually noticeable in game? take BF3 for example, it's fast paced, can you cant track an object as you look around on an IPS at 120hz? Does the lack of overdrive in the Catleaps make a big difference as well? Catleaps can do 120hz but are not made for them, however BenQ and others design their monitors for the fast frame rates. How much better are they? thanks

Hi Sean!

Let me start of by saying the gpu has nothing to do with it as you should only expect to get what they are rated for.

An IPS 1080p screen at 120hz can be fed by SOME HDMI, DVI dual link and display port.

Same as a TN 1080p screen.


The "overclockable" ips displays which are popular are higher resolution (2560x1440) which forces the card and the cables and the monitor to run higher than specification (of dvi dual link).

A single gtx 680 seems to be the best, in sli they won't run past spec (with the DVI, note display port 1.2 can support 120hz 1440p).

In sli any past spec gains stop working, dvi dual will have to run up to the clock spec (67hz or something or other with 1440p)

A 7970 or whatever amd gpu can support the dual link dvi spec in crossfire x. The limit for the 7970s is between 92-114 if the monitor can OC (this is not guaranteed).


There are no (publicly known COMMERCIAL) TN panels which are 1440p which can overclock.


All commercial TN 120hz panels = 1080p 120hz.

All commercial IPS panels are 60hz ATM (be it whatever resolution 1080p 1200p 1440p 1600p) but with the right PCBs, gpu card, cables, connectors etc you can get more (lots of variables).


This is where you are getting confused.

Any future commercial 120hz ips 1440p panels WILL HAVE TO USE display port or some form of HDMI in the future when a new specification (probably 1.5 which is not released yet).

Now any 1080p (most likely at first) 120hz IPS panel will be able to use any dual link DVI port (if your card supports 120hz), any hdmi port (which supports 120hz) and any display port (would 1.1 work guys, I'm not sure but most post 2010 are 1.2 which WILL work) port.

So yes, if it is commercially produced (and rated at the refresh rate 120hz) and you have the same connector it should work...


To answer everything else...

Input lag is the main problem for games which causes ghosting, and modern ips panels won't suffer from that.

The IPS panel should have no problems tbh. To acheive 60hz the "switching time" needs to be 16 and 2/3 ms.

Most IPS panels nowadays are rated at 6ms but are more or less around 8-10ms. Note most of them on the market (the panels not the PCBs) are old designs based in early-mid 2011.

To get 120hz you need 8 and 1/3 ms response time, so current IPS panels (if rated correctly) can do that if the pcb and panel can switch/support 120hz which they cannot.

The PCBS are here (2b korean lg panel pcbs can support 120hz and more (124hz) but not all panels are guaranteed stability at 120hz, but they all peak around 100hz without artifacting/crashing/not displaying (at least some can do more). This means that most (majority (over 50% at least)) of the current panels can do 10ms or more response time. Advancing the panels a little bit more and qualifying it for 120hz shouldn't be too hard atm.

Yamakasi guarantee 100hz from all panels with their 2B pcbs if your gpu's dvi dual link (ramdac basically) can handle the higher refresh rate.

When the 1440p 120hz panels eventually come out they WILL be display port 1.2 so no issues on this case. The only thing left is to mass produce a panel which can GUARANTEE (be rated at minimum) 8 1/3ms or less (probably will say 4ms) response time and to fix a display port connection to the panel (the 120hz pcbs have display port pins but no connection to the panel from them, but some monitors with the same panels support display port be it natively through the (different pcb) or through conversion via a chip).
Edited by JassimH - 4/30/12 at 11:30am
    
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post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks.... but all i wanted to know was if the known IPS displays that people have gotten to 120hz with are a blurry mess in fast paced games or not. Practical? or simply bragging rights?
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post #4 of 14
They're not.
    
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post #5 of 14
The 23A is available soon. smile.gif
post #6 of 14
JassimH, thank you for the informative post. Very very helpful thumb.gif
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post

The 23A is available soon. smile.gif

What is the 23a?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dental Decks View Post

JassimH, thank you for the informative post. Very very helpful thumb.gif

Thanks tongue.gif
    
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post #8 of 14
a TN panel will almost always do a more fluid job at 120hz then a IPS could. That said I think it would still look damn good on an IPS and certainly not blurry or not able to keep up. My HP IPS panel does a wonderful job at response time, but it's not as silky smooth as it's TN counterparts.
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post #9 of 14
The argument to this date still stands as IPS having the more color clarity as opposed to TN having a faster response time. The blur from the catleaps is fairly noticeable from what I've been able to gather in the forums.

One thing I need to point out from JassimH's post is that the catleaps aren't bound by RAMDAC, as those arent around anymore. It's bounded by the copper bandwidth housed by the dual link DVI and effectively the pixel clock, however everything else he said is pretty much correct.

While the Catleaps are a very attractive offer due to their cheap pricing and overclockability (if admin/chip do in fact cut a deal with bqvle's contact) it's better to go for TN if you want true 120Hz refresh rate for fast paced games such as BF3, CS:GO, MW3, etc.

My 0.02.
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post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post

The 23A is available soon. smile.gif

are you talking about the samsung monitors? thought that series was already available
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