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Did people put unrealistic expectations on Ivy Bridge? - Page 6

post #51 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I already said that IHS removal has already been done, and gave no improvement:
http://www.eteknix.com/news/ivy-bridge-heat-problems-remain-even-after-ihs-removal/
Also, don't double post if you can help it.
Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. Read my post!!!! I am not saying that removing the IHS is going to improve anything. So your link is not on point. I am saying that fluxless solder is better at cooling hot chips, and Intel chose not to use it so, the heat is desirable from Intel's perspective. Did you look at my link above to cpu-world? It is perfectly clear and correct, better than I can put it.
post #52 of 61
The original Prescott is another example of a significant die shrink that ran REALLY hot. Here we are eight years later, it's all a cycle that continues...

I am not a big fan of IHS on processors, I am thinking about removing the one on my own and installing the waterblock directly on the CPU.
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post #53 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by youghmama View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I already said that IHS removal has already been done, and gave no improvement:
http://www.eteknix.com/news/ivy-bridge-heat-problems-remain-even-after-ihs-removal/
Also, don't double post if you can help it.
Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. Read my post!!!! I am not saying that removing the IHS is going to improve anything. So your link is not on point. I am saying that fluxless solder is better at cooling hot chips, and Intel chose not to use it so, the heat is desirable from Intel's perspective. Did you look at my link above to cpu-world? It is perfectly clear and correct, better than I can put it.

I guess I don't understand how fluxless solder + IHS will help transfer more heat to the block/heatsink versus direct contact with the die. wth.gif
Edited by samwiches - 5/1/12 at 7:47pm
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post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I guess I don't understand how fluxless solder + IHS will help transfer more heat to the block/heatsink versus direct contact with the die. wth.gif
Fair enough. Then we both agree that the process of removing heat from a chip starts at the surface of the chip and it is that connection which is the most critical. It is like a river, if the initial gate doesnt let enough water through there will be nothing for other gates downstream to do. So the initial contact with the surface of the raw chip sets the stage for everything else. If the initial contact is inferior, no matter how much you spend on an external passive cooling system (note I said passive so this does not apply to LN2/dry ice/ice water/peltier cooler) the chip will still run hot.

When you take the IHS off and put a waterblock or air cooler on top of it you are still using TIM to connect it to the chip surface so, if fluxless solder is a superior connection, you really havent improved anything UNLESS you made a better connection than OEM Intel TIM makes.
post #55 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I already said that IHS removal has already been done, and gave no improvement:
http://www.eteknix.com/news/ivy-bridge-heat-problems-remain-even-after-ihs-removal/
Also, don't double post if you can help it.

Man I wish this forum didnt star out words because im so bleeping mad people like you keep spreading this mis-information of a shoddily done "direct to die" application. mad.gif

As of yet there HAS NOT been a proper direct to die application to account for the spacing lost in removing the IHS. There have been a couple attempts at this and from pics available elsewhere you can see the spacers/ and or know that the screw stops are designed to keep the cooler from crushing the chip. So now that you remove IHS you are just adding a thicker layer of TIM... No bleeping wonder there is no improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripple View Post

The original Prescott is another example of a significant die shrink that ran REALLY hot. Here we are eight years later, it's all a cycle that continues...
I am not a big fan of IHS on processors, I am thinking about removing the one on my own and installing the waterblock directly on the CPU.

Please do... applaud.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I guess I don't understand how fluxless solder + IHS will help transfer more heat to the block/heatsink versus direct contact with the die. wth.gif

Once again there has been no direct contact to die so point moot.
    
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post #56 of 61
http://www.overclock.net/t/1249419/pcevaluation-intel-i7-3770k-temperature-measured-without-ihs

Well, if you're sure there is no contact, then okayyyy. I just thought the D14 had exactly the sort of mount for this.. plus that's not quite a stock mount.
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post #57 of 61
The contact pattern looks decent enough, but as I mentioned in the original thread there are some potentially noteworthy factors that were neglected in that test.

Firstly, the NH-D14 doesn't tend to have a perfectly flat base (nor do most CPU dies for that matter). Secondly, nothing was done to make up for the loss of mounting pressure from the IHS removal.

So, while the results are intriguing and worthy of further investigation, I don't consider them particularly conclusive.
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post #58 of 61
It was pretty clear how IB was going to turn out around 2 months before launch. For example here's a post I made in early March, didn't get much replies though. But imo it was pretty spot on, except that I blamed temps on leakage alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

First of all SOURCE.
422
Quote:
IBT default test setup passed, but this chip runs HOT. As you can see from the screenshot it hit 104C during the IBT, but the vcore never rose above 1.312. This is a bit worrisome. Why such high temps at low voltage? I have no doubts about the heatsink installation, its a very simple process and its on there nice and snug with proper amount of compound. Its currently idling between 32-38C, and my 2600K idles between 24-29C with this cooler. But if temps remain higher than expected I will do a reapply of compound and reinstall of the cooler. Now I will begin finding max stable clock speed.
Quote:
All I did while at 5GHz was a 1M run of SuperPi (much lower temps there since it doesn't stress the CPU much), and validated the overclock with CPU-Z, as well as posted to a couple forums. It crashed instantly with the Chess benchmark and BSOD with Prime95. This was at 1.375 vcore and I know there seems to be head room there but the temps were just too high with my cooler (100C+). Even when I booted the system for the first time tonight with the 3770K and saw the temps I was getting at 4.8GHz under load I knew it wasn't going much further with my cooler (Thermalright True Spirit 140 - $40). What's weird is it does a fine job always keeping my 2600K @ 4.6GHz below 70C under the heaviest load but this Ivy Bridge chip runs damn hot.
It would seem that at least some of the IB ES CPUs floating around are getting really high temps. I'm inclined to believe that the guy who has the chip has installed his HS properly, and I also don't see the logic in the counter arguments saying that since the HS is not hot to the touch, the mount must be bad. Just because the chip runs hot doesn't mean that it outputs a lot of heat. Could this be a side effect of the tri gate transistors with intel's 22nm tech?
Quote:
You guys believe me now that maximum speeds are going to be lower than SB? IB runs hot because the 22 nm Tri-Gate node is made to be low leakage, meaning higher temperatures at any given voltage.
Quote:
Water won't help much if at all. Have fun chasing the Dragon F1 around (I'll reveal what that means later, you can probably work it out though).
From Kyle over at [H]:
Quote:
Guess it is all good to talk about since we don't have processors from Intel yet.
Ivy Bridge will clock no better than Sandy Bridge, in fact, it will likely clock worse as it will not be able to handle voltages much above 1.35 without a good chance of burning up the processor. 5 to 15% IPC improvement as clock scales. You will likely have a lot better shot of pushing a SB processor across the 4.8GHz threshold and keeping it stable than you will with Ivy Bridge. However, it looks to be pretty easy clocking up to the 4.5GHz level or so many times requiring little voltage tweaks at all.
link
So according to these (if they're accurate) I would guess that IB will be really good for situations where temps are not a concern (meaning DICE, LN2, LHE etc.) No idea if it has a cold bug but still, people with samples seem to think that 24/7 limits will be around those of SB. Add to this the latest preview from VR-Zone showing us a chip that needed 1.34V for 4.7ghz, and I think some of the 24/7 users might be disappointed with the chip.
Thoughts?
 
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post #59 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The contact pattern looks decent enough, but as I mentioned in the original thread there are some potentially noteworthy factors that were neglected in that test.

Firstly, the NH-D14 doesn't tend to have a perfectly flat base (nor do most CPU dies for that matter). Secondly, nothing was done to make up for the loss of mounting pressure from the IHS removal.

So, while the results are intriguing and worthy of further investigation, I don't consider them particularly conclusive.

Yeah, maybe lapping the heatsink could help.

But look at it. That Noctua has got some black springs on the mounting screws that someone put there. The socket clamp is gone and the paste imprint doesn't look bad so I don't expect any surprises if anyone tries this again.
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post #60 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

http://www.overclock.net/t/1249419/pcevaluation-intel-i7-3770k-temperature-measured-without-ihs
Well, if you're sure there is no contact, then okayyyy. I just thought the D14 had exactly the sort of mount for this.. plus that's not quite a stock mount.

We are looking at the same pics there right? Contact doesnt look good to me and other than the round area that takes up about a third of the chip the TIM is horribly thick.
Edited by Jesse D - 5/2/12 at 8:33pm
    
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