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post #81 of 114
so do any of yall do anything that doesnt involve computers?
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post #82 of 114
Good question....

Well.. err... I eat! Does that count?
    
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post #83 of 114
im sure most of them dont even bother to turn the monitor off when they eat. everyones needs a hobby but jeez.....
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post #84 of 114
Quote:
are you giong to test a e6600 with them or are the benchmark programs easy enough to get for us?
I am going to test them both with the SPEC array of benchmarks. SPEC benchmarks are extremely expensive to get hold of, unless you get hold of an old version.

As for what I do, I spend most of my time with computers. However, I do like breaks, and I do party often
post #85 of 114
My wife makes me turn my computer off while she's sleeping. But that's OK cuz I have a laptop!
    
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post #86 of 114
Interesting thread indeed. Still no benchmarks that directly compares the two CPU's. I'm glad you said you party often Manual I was going to suggest a 17year old should have more of a life What swings it for me is I can get an OEM Xeon 3060 for £30 cheaper than the E6600 Funnily enough I have two DEC Alpha 800 servers.....just thought I'd throw that in lol.
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post #87 of 114


Man this thread needed that

Manual, can i just start by saying that you have the highest level of understanding in this area for a kid of your age. I encourage you to continue with this, but please, and don't take offense to this, scale you're ego down a bit. You know *a lot*, granted, but you're also very wrong on some points in this thread.

"These processors are technically none comparable."
Spec sheets, CPU-Z shots and transistor photos all disagree.

"Second difference is in relation to the socket type (thermal/electric specification)."
Zero difference in the socket type.

"the E6600 incorporates 4MB shared Level 2 Cache (Instruction + Data) whereas the Xeon 3060 supports 4MB shared Level 3 Cache (Instruction + Data). ECC is also supported on L3 cache."
Maybe you're 'ES' had this, although i severely doubt intel would go to the bother of actually producing a L3 cache based chip only to change their mind and revert to a L2 cache based chip at the last minute. Proof? Then show us this L3 cache chip.

"The Xeon is not designed for overclocking and will not overclock as far as the Conroe."
Very, very wrong. People are choosing the Xeon over the C2D for this very reason. From available results online, Xeon are clocking higher and at lower voltages - whether it's because they're binned higher or the die substrate is actually of a slightly better quality is obviously unknown.

And those were only the 'very wrong' parts, there were a few hazy borderline points like your talk about these 'optimisations' which are still unproven.

And another little point,
"where little focus is on Floating Point Integer calculations."
"Xeon's are more based upon Floating Point Integer"
Floating point integer? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean that, but that has to be one of the biggest misnoma's ever. The fact that you typed it twice doesn't help you though.

Please please please don't get me wrong. You provided a whole lot of info in between all this that was very relevant and correct, and obviously educational to a lot of your readers but please acknowledge any mistakes.
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post #88 of 114
I will always acknowledge any mistakes, as do not forget, I am still learning myself. Especially as I am not technically adult age, my ability to understand this form of information to the engineering level is partially limited.

First part:

"These processors are technically none comparable."

I agree, incorrect statement. I do not know where I stated that, at the time I suggest I was referring to the older Xeon's, which were not designed to be comparable to their desktop variants as they had slight/major differences (i.e. 16MB L3 variant, Xeon).

Second:

"Second difference is in relation to the socket type (thermal/electric specification)."

Now this statement is actually true. If you look deep into the Silicon enhancement for the specified chip.
It is true that the Xeon’s, which are based upon the Core 2 Duo architecture, use the purist Silicon out of the processor line. Therefore the electrical specification will be slightly different. Reducing the purities within the Silicon compound itself will change the ability of the electrical transfer (e-). This will therefore result in a more effective voltage transaction, which will affect all remaining physics properties concerning the hardware component.

The 775 Land Grid Array connections within the chip itself (LGA pins are contained within the system Mainboard) have a few additional layers, this therefore results in a higher proportion of data flow, I am lead to believe. However I fail to see any performance benefit from this addition, therefore I do not see any point in adding these. If you use a Microscope and look closely at the differences between these connections you should be able to see the additional layers.

Third:

"the E6600 incorporates 4MB shared Level 2 Cache (Instruction + Data) whereas the Xeon 3060 supports 4MB shared Level 3 Cache (Instruction + Data). ECC is also supported on L3 cache."

I think you slightly misunderstood this. The L3 Cache Xeon processors were never released to the market, and only a small majority of L3 chips were created as Engineering Samples to test out. The L3 chips have problems with Cache addressing, as certain SSE extensions can not address the system cache store correctly. This was corrected by changing to cache store to Level 2. They are extremely rare to find, but I am sure you will find one on EBay sometime throughout their lifetime.

As mentioned previously in this thread I have been trying to get acceptable access to this machine. This proves difficult as it is a Company administration system that has no means of external/internet data transfer capabilities. The only device that can be used to transfer data is a USB data stick, and presently I do not own one of these devices.

That statement, technically in the real world, is incorrect I agree

Fourth:

"The Xeon is not designed for overclocking and will not overclock as far as the Conroe."

I do not know where I said that, but that is totally incorrect in the case of these Core 2 Xeon processors. In reality that statement is totally the other way around, with the Xeon's overclocking further than the Core 2 Duo's.

In the past Xeon's have been unable to overclock as well due to poor Mainboard support, and Full Speed Level 3 cache does not like extreme overclocking.

Lastly:

"where little focus is on Floating Point Integer calculations."
"Xeon's are more based upon Floating Point Integer"


That is a typing error. The first line should have said: "Where less focus in on Floating Point Multimedia Calculations".

No offence taken
post #89 of 114
Lets dumb this down a bit with one simple question that I know a lot of people are thinking.

If I were to build another computer. Should I use an Xeon 3060 in place of a C2D? Overall it sounds better than the C2D. It OC's better. It runs cooler. The difference in speed isn't going to notable in the actually game. I've also been told that it's cheaper. So why would I want to go out and buy a C2D? I know it's made for home high end use. But then Xeon could be use for the same things, just a tab bit slower with better ocing to make up for that.
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post #90 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
I will always acknowledge any mistakes, as do not forget, I am still learning myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
First part:

"These processors are technically none comparable."

I agree, incorrect statement. I do not know where I stated that, at the time I suggest I was referring to the older Xeon's, which were not designed to be comparable to their desktop variants as they had slight/major differences (i.e. 16MB L3 variant, Xeon).
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
These processors are technically none comparable.
First reply in the thread is where you stated it. I guessed you were referring to 'other' Xeon's i.e not the X3060.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
"Second difference is in relation to the socket type (thermal/electric specification)."

Now this statement is actually true. If you look deep into the Silicon enhancement for the specified chip.
It is true that the Xeon’s, which are based upon the Core 2 Duo architecture, use the purist Silicon out of the processor line. Therefore the electrical specification will be slightly different. Reducing the purities within the Silicon compound itself will change the ability of the electrical transfer (e-). This will therefore result in a more effective voltage transaction, which will affect all remaining physics properties concerning the hardware component.

The 775 Land Grid Array connections within the chip itself (LGA pins are contained within the system Mainboard) have a few additional layers, this therefore results in a higher proportion of data flow, I am lead to believe. However I fail to see any performance benefit from this addition, therefore I do not see any point in adding these. If you use a Microscope and look closely at the differences between these connections you should be able to see the additional layers.
Ok, tbh, most of that is just the waffle that will get you great marks in educational exams - what i decipher out of that is that you're suggesting that the silicon is purer and the metal connections on the cpu have more layers?

It is generally agreed that the Xeon's must use a better silicon because they do give more consistent overclocks (note, i did not say 'always better'), as for there being more layers on the cpu connections, i've never heard this before and even if it was true i really doubt it would make any difference.

More relevantly, what does this have to do with the socket type?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
Third:

"the E6600 incorporates 4MB shared Level 2 Cache (Instruction + Data) whereas the Xeon 3060 supports 4MB shared Level 3 Cache (Instruction + Data). ECC is also supported on L3 cache."

I think you slightly misunderstood this. The L3 Cache Xeon processors were never released to the market, and only a small majority of L3 chips were created as Engineering Samples to test out. The L3 chips have problems with Cache addressing, as certain SSE extensions can not address the system cache store correctly. This was corrected by changing to cache store to Level 2. They are extremely rare to find, but I am sure you will find one on EBay sometime throughout their lifetime.

As mentioned previously in this thread I have been trying to get acceptable access to this machine. This proves difficult as it is a Company administration system that has no means of external/internet data transfer capabilities. The only device that can be used to transfer data is a USB data stick, and presently I do not own one of these devices.

That statement, technically in the real world, is incorrect I agree
It's not that i didn't understand, I know you were referring to ES's and that none were retail, I was just saying it'd be late in the day for intel to produce an ES with L3 cache and then change their minds, go to L2 cache based chip and release it. Also, I was challenging you to prove this L3 cache Xeon exists., which you can't because you 'don't have a usb drive'? Thats thin if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
Fourth:

"The Xeon is not designed for overclocking and will not overclock as far as the Conroe."

I do not know where I said that, but that is totally incorrect in the case of these Core 2 Xeon processors. In reality that statement is totally the other way around, with the Xeon's overclocking further than the Core 2 Duo's.

In the past Xeon's have been unable to overclock as well due to poor Mainboard support, and Full Speed Level 3 cache does not like extreme overclocking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
The Xeon is not designed for overclocking and will not overclock as far as the Conroe.
Again, you said that in the first post in the thread where you were mistakenly taking about 'other' Xeon's, not the X3060 the OP was referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual View Post
Lastly:

"where little focus is on Floating Point Integer calculations."
"Xeon's are more based upon Floating Point Integer"


That is a typing error. The first line should have said: "Where less focus in on Floating Point Multimedia Calculations".

No offence taken
Good good.

Now to move this thread onwards...as we've discussed, it is generally agreed that the X3060 is the overclocker's choice, anyone found a retail one in the UK yet? Or failing that, where's the best price in the states (I know newegg is out of stock )? I got a Bad Axe on the way and want one!
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