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Best 3D positioning program for stereo headphons? CMSS-3D? Dolby headphone? - Page 3

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeman3000 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren9 View Post

I think this thread is mixing EAX in with CMSS, without additional information about the environment CMSS can't do anything special.

I wish someone could completely de-mystify DH and CMSS-3D Headphone for me

CMSS is better, more realistic, and imo has WAY better positioning. I find DH to be muffled and skewed in that everything from a 60 degree pivot in your ear can be positioned while the other 120 degrees both front and behind you hard intermixed from side directions and give no actual positioning.

CMSS I find give evaluational positioning as well as 360 degree lateral positioning. E.G. DH simulated 5.1 vs. CMSS simulated 11.1 and higher.
That is my personal opinion.
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post #22 of 81
Basically, if you want realistic sound for gaming, Creative technology is better.

If you just want straight up advantage/wall hack cheating sound, DH really helps in certain games.

That's not to say that DH works amazingly in all games. Games without many walls or ups and downs don't play out that well.

Modern Warfare 2 had lots of walls, tons of ups and downs so DH was great for it.

MW3 much less so...not as useful.

Ultimately depends on the game you're playing. Understand it better? If you want to hear sound like footsteps through walls, DH.

Otherwise Creative's CMSS-3D with EAX crap.

But IMO, turn all that off and enjoy the soundcard as is.
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post #23 of 81
I prefer CMSS-3D.

I've owned a couple Xonars (U3, DX), Didn't care for them.
post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Basically, if you want realistic sound for gaming, Creative technology is better.

If you just want straight up advantage/wall hack cheating sound, DH really helps in certain games.

That's not to say that DH works amazingly in all games. Games without many walls or ups and downs don't play out that well.

Modern Warfare 2 had lots of walls, tons of ups and downs so DH was great for it.

MW3 much less so...not as useful.

Ultimately depends on the game you're playing. Understand it better? If you want to hear sound like footsteps through walls, DH.

Otherwise Creative's CMSS-3D with EAX crap.

But IMO, turn all that off and enjoy the soundcard as is.

Terrible. DH is cheap and obscure. CMSS has much better pin pointing technology.
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post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Otherwise Creative's CMSS-3D with EAX crap.
But IMO, turn all that off and enjoy the soundcard as is.

EAX has not been used in a modern game since Kane&Lynch or Call of Juarez. It has no effect on any game afterwards. CMSS-3D definitely does.

There is a difference in the two.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkbluffgrown View Post

EAX has not been used in a modern game since Kane&Lynch or Call of Juarez. It has no effect on any game afterwards. CMSS-3D definitely does.
There is a difference in the two.

myth
Quote:
-Myth: EAX and hardware-accelerated audio are completely dead in Vista onward.

-Fact: This is why ALchemy, GX2.5/Xear3D, 3DSoundBack, etc. exist; to restore games that utilize it via DirectSound3D by wrapping the calls to the still-functional OpenAL API. Note that games that use EAX via OpenAL, such as Battlefield 2, do not need these applications. Even if the game doesn't explicitly mention EAX but uses DirectSound3D, it will still benefit because without them, DirectSound3D games only output in stereo, with no surround support for use with the aforementioned binaural technologies.

-Myth: EAX handles 3D positional audio in old games.

-Fact: As mentioned above, EAX solely adds reverb/chorus/occlusion processing to sound effects. The actual task of positioning sounds in 3D space is left to either the DirectSound3D or OpenAL API, whichever the game uses.

And even though EAX is accessed through those two APIs, don't automatically assume that every game with EAX support is going to have 3D positional audio. I found this out the hard way with Serious Sam: The First Encounter and The Second Encounter (original releases, not the HD remakes), which do support EAX, but have NO support for 3D positional audio whatsoever. It still sounds like software-mixed stereo, just with some added reverb and chorus effects depending on what environment you're in.

source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound. All EAX is is sound post-processing.
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkbluffgrown View Post

EAX has not been used in a modern game since Kane&Lynch or Call of Juarez. It has no effect on any game afterwards. CMSS-3D definitely does.
There is a difference in the two.

myth
Quote:
-Myth: EAX and hardware-accelerated audio are completely dead in Vista onward.

-Fact: This is why ALchemy, GX2.5/Xear3D, 3DSoundBack, etc. exist; to restore games that utilize it via DirectSound3D by wrapping the calls to the still-functional OpenAL API. Note that games that use EAX via OpenAL, such as Battlefield 2, do not need these applications. Even if the game doesn't explicitly mention EAX but uses DirectSound3D, it will still benefit because without them, DirectSound3D games only output in stereo, with no surround support for use with the aforementioned binaural technologies.

-Myth: EAX handles 3D positional audio in old games.

-Fact: As mentioned above, EAX solely adds reverb/chorus/occlusion processing to sound effects. The actual task of positioning sounds in 3D space is left to either the DirectSound3D or OpenAL API, whichever the game uses.

And even though EAX is accessed through those two APIs, don't automatically assume that every game with EAX support is going to have 3D positional audio. I found this out the hard way with Serious Sam: The First Encounter and The Second Encounter (original releases, not the HD remakes), which do support EAX, but have NO support for 3D positional audio whatsoever. It still sounds like software-mixed stereo, just with some added reverb and chorus effects depending on what environment you're in.

source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound. All EAX is is sound post-processing.

I love my head-fi.org
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post #28 of 81
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I love my head-fi.org

depends on what sections of Head-fi you're talking about wink.gif
post #29 of 81
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post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

myth
source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound. All EAX is is sound post-processing.

I love the cut and paste, I really do, but it is simply done on your part, I believe, out of context.

EAX stands for environmental audio extensions. I was one of the early adopters of Creative's Live! sound cards. I played plenty of titles with Windows 98 that had EAX as a feature to add reverb and occlusion to game audio without taxing the CPU.

I was and am now speaking of modern games of the last two to three years. I am not speaking of running old/legacy titles using Creative's Alchemy application.

I am very familiar with Alchemy and what it does to restore hardware acceleration to older titles. Some sound cards use a software based OpenAL/Alchemy solution, but it is poor in comparison to the hardware version. I used hardware-based Alchemy with World of Warcraft. It worked very well. I used the software based version and it crashed often or was simply not detected.

EAX is no longer used, nor is its successor, OpenAL, with any current game of the last two to three years.

Bioshock, Call of Juarez, and Kane & Lynch were the last titles I can remember that had OpenAL and/or EAX sound options.

CMSS-3D does work on all Creative sound cards in Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 for surround upmix with speakers or headphones. EAX and CMSS-3D are two separate things, not two names for the same thing.

ASUS uses Dolby Headphone or DTS Connect (I believe it is called) for speakers while Creative uses CMSS-3D or THX Tru Studio as it is called on the Recon3D series of cards.

People in these forums often ask if they will benefit from a Creative sound card for gaming. Some ask if they will have a better experience due to EAX capabilities of the sound card and its software.. Simply put, EAX is not used any longer nor will it be.. There are plenty of games that used it in the past, but they are quite old. Will a gamer benefit from CMSS-3D and a pair of headphones or gaming headset reproducing positional audio cues compared to someone using their onboard audio? Absolutely. EAX? No, not any longer on any modern title.

Do ASUS sound cards support EAX for legacy titles with their software hack? Yes, they do. They also do it very poorly and many games simply crash or sound worse than Creative's hardware based EAX-capable cards do. ASUS cards do have Dolby Headphone and I think it works well or as well as CMSS-3D, but some people prefer one to the other for wall hacking, etc.

Quoting Head-Fi on something like this using the link to their forum reminds of someone arguing with me and telling me they heard "a lot of people say it, so it must be true."
Edited by chalkbluffgrown - 11/15/12 at 1:36am
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