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Quick nvidia question..

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for an evga or xfx ddr5 video card around $100.

however i'm not sure how to tell which is best, as some 520's are cheaper than some 440's, etc.

whats more important.. ddr5 vs ddr3? core count? mhz? memory (1gb vs 2gb)? effective memory?

thanks!
Edited by ryder - 5/4/12 at 9:12pm
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post #2 of 13
I take it you want to game with that sig rig of yours?

If it were me I would get a 460 1GB 256-bit Non-SE, the rest of those cards you mentioned are not going to be much better than your 285

GDDR5> GDDR3

Larger the core count the better (usually)

Frequency in GHz is the speed at which each core in the core count goes at, the faster the better. You can increase this with Overclocking using MSI afterburner etc. There are a ton of guides here on OCN that can walk you through this process. It's best usually to get a GPU that has a high core count with the ability to OC high as well, you can look up the general OC limit to a certain type of GPU from reviews or threads here on OCN

VRAM is just like your system RAM except it is dedicated for use by the GPU and only the GPU, hence the GDDR5 type. Depending on what resolution that your monitor outputs (1920x1080, 1680x1050 etc.) the more VRAM you have you will need (however it all depends on the type of game you want to play). If you play stuff like Battlefield 3 of Skryim then you will need at the very least 1GB minimum for 1080p resolutions

GT, GTS, GTX are naming schemes made by nVidia, the best/top-end usually have GTX in the name somewhere hence why I recommend the 460 1GB thumb.gif

Hope this helps.
Edited by SpartanVXL - 5/4/12 at 4:20pm
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post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanVXL View Post

I take it you want to game with that sig rig of yours?
If it were me I would get a 460 1GB 256-bit Non-SE, the rest of those cards you mentioned are not going to be much better than your 285
GDDR5> GDDR3
Larger the core count the better (usually)
Frequency in GHz is the speed at which each core in the core count goes at, the faster the better. You can increase this with Overclocking using MSI afterburner etc. There are a ton of guides here on OCN that can walk you through this process. It's best usually to get a GPU that has a high core count with the ability to OC high as well, you can look up the general OC limit to a certain type of GPU from reviews or threads here on OCN
VRAM is just like your system RAM except it is dedicated for use by the GPU and only the GPU, hence the GDDR5 type. Depending on what resolution that your monitor outputs (1920x1080, 1680x1050 etc.) the more VRAM you have you will need (however it all depends on the type of game you want to play). If you play stuff like Battlefield 3 of Skryim then you will need at the very least 1GB minimum for 1080p resolutions
GT, GTS, GTX are naming schemes made by nVidia, the best/top-end usually have GTX in the name somewhere hence why I recommend the 460 1GB thumb.gif
Hope this helps.

that totally helped.

the card is actually for my brothers i5 everyday use rig im currently building him. he doesnt wan't to game but wants the ability to watch bluray, 1080p vids etc full screen with no slow down or lag what-so-ever. he said he doesn't mind spending up to $100 cdn in order to feel he can watch whatever blu-ray and hi res movies/videos can throw his way for awhile.

so what exactly is the diff between a card that has ddr3 vs ddr5? obviouslly one is 'faster', but faster in what way? i'm also open the the xfx line or radeons.
Edited by ryder - 5/4/12 at 5:59pm
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post #4 of 13
I have two engtx 460 tops in sli not to mention they are the 768mb cards which a bit cheaper and sir I will tell u they rip up over clocks and have good temps. They do about 70fps at 1080p. I don't game much anymore but they handle crysis 2 well when I played it and I even use them now to run my 3d vision theatre to a 107 projection screen. Nice cards and the 460 series is an awesome budget card if u can get ur hands on any of them. To bad water blocks used are hard to come by
post #5 of 13
If all you're looking for is blu ray playback capability, you can get that for less than a hundred cad. If you want to use all of the money, I suggest a gtx 550-560
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post #6 of 13
If your up for used, the MSI GTX465GEs are a great deal right now. Running from $130-$140 used, and unlockable to GTX470s. Many used cards are still under factory warranty.
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post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
so how then would these cards compare..

gtx 450 - 192 cores, 1GB (128bit), 822mhz, 3608 MHz (effective) http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=55461&vpn=01G%2DP3%2D1450%2DTR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1067 $105

gtx 460 - 336 cores, 1GB (192bit), 823mhz, 4008MHz (effective) http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=66805&vpn=01G%2DP3%2D1361%2DKR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1067 $120

gtx 550 (1) - 192 cores, 1GB (192bit), 951mhz, 4356 MHz (effective) http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=59501&vpn=01G%2DP3%2D1556%2DKR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1018 $105

gtx 550 (2) - 192 cores, 2GB, 900mhz, 4008 MHz (effective) http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=60804&vpn=02G%2DP3%2D1559%2DKR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1067 $140

gtx 560 - 384, 1GB (192bit), 776mhz, 3828 MHz (effective) http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=70905&vpn=01G%2DP3%2D1464%2DKR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1067 $129

xfx radeon 6850 - 1GB ( - http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=63985&vpn=HD685XZCFC&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1018 $129


i see why the 460 > 450 (more cores, quicker memory 128 vs 192? ) but why is the 460 > 550 (1)? why would the higher #'d card (550 vs 460) be lesser of a card in terms of cores?

also is a 192 core 2GB card better or worse then a 336 core 1GB card? what does effective memory mean and why is it important? what is most important amung ddr5 cards, cores or amount of memory (1gb vs 2gb)?
Edited by ryder - 5/4/12 at 10:43pm
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post #8 of 13
None of any of that spec stuff matters for playback of blu-rays and videos from off your hard drive. You can get like a $40-50 GPU (like a gt520) and meet his needs.

All those specs you're asking about ... all they matter for is gaming or other 3D applications.

'Effective' memory clock refers to the fact that this measurement is 4 x the 'actual' memory clock, because DDR5 is what's referred to as 'quad-pumped' ... for every clock cycle, 4 pieces of data can be transferred. So, a 1000MHz 'actual' memory clock has an 'effective' memory clock of 4000MHz with DDR5. With DDR2 and 3, they are only 'double-pumped', meaning that 1000MHz actual = 2000MHz 'Effective'.

However, the memory clock must also be multiplied by the bus width (i.e. 128-bit, 256-bit, etc) in order to calculate memory BANDWIDTH, which is actually the 'important' number in terms of the calculation of how fast the memory is going to work. Roughly speaking, if you had 2000MHz effective memory clock on a 256-bit bus, it'd would have the same bandwidth as 4000MHz effective on a 128-bit bus ... and hence the memory subsystem would perform the same (more or less).

When you get into memory AMOUNTS, it gets tricky. More is not always better (although if it's totally free it's almost always better). Memory is the kind of thing where you either have ENOUGH for what you're trying to do, in which case having extra does NOTHING, or you don't have enough, in which case having more (such that you DO have enough) becomes critical ... i.e. your performance drops way off if you have too little memory. There's a TON of stuff that comes into play with regards to calculating 'how much you need' when it comes to vram, because every game is different. However all these cards have adequate memory for gaming at 1080p resolution or below.

The 2GB card is a joke, because it doesn't have nearly enough GPU power to 'push' an image that actually occupied 2GB worth of memory. Cross that one off your list for sure.

The reason the 460 is better than the 550 is this: the first digit refers to the 'generation' of card, i.e. the 4-series is older than the 5-series. The 2nd (and third in some cases) number though describes the 'level' of the card relative to it's generation. So while the 460 is older, it's a higher level card (6 level vs 5 level) ... usually it takes at least 2 generations before a 5-level card will be better than a 6-level card. So ... the 650 (which hasn't come out yet) may well be better than a 460, but the 550 is not.

LIke I said before though none of these specs apply to 2d movie viewing to any significant extent. These are specs that matter for 3d only. Any remotely decent GPU from 400-series up will rock blu-rays without breaking a sweat.

The best cards on your list for gaming, however, are:
560, 6850, and 460. The other (450 and 550, since they're 5-level cards) are way slower than those three. The regular 560, despite being newer than the 460, is really not much faster at all, because it's really the same technology in the 4 and 5-series afa those particular cards go. The 560 does run cooler though, it's more efficient. To get an actual BETTER 5-series card than the 460 1GB, you have to go with a 560ti 1GB.

Lastly, the core count is by far the most important spec among your cards here. However keep in mind that AMD core count (aka Stream Processors) and nV core count (i.e. CUDA cores) cannot be directly compared using raw counts. The 6850 has far more 'cores' than the nV cards, but it's really about the same speed as the 560 and 460. AMD and nV cores have different architectures.

Does that answer all your questions?
Edited by brettjv - 5/4/12 at 11:54pm
    
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post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

None of any of that spec stuff matters for playback of blu-rays and videos from off your hard drive. You can get like a $40-50 GPU (like a gt520) and meet his needs.
All those specs you're asking about ... all they matter for is gaming or other 3D applications.
'Effective' memory clock refers to the fact that this measurement is 4 x the 'actual' memory clock, because DDR5 is what's referred to as 'quad-pumped' ... for every clock cycle, 4 pieces of data can be transferred. So, a 1000MHz 'actual' memory clock has an 'effective' memory clock of 4000MHz with DDR5. With DDR2 and 3, they are only 'double-pumped', meaning that 1000MHz actual = 2000MHz 'Effective'.
However, the memory clock must also be multiplied by the bus width (i.e. 128-bit, 256-bit, etc) in order to calculate memory BANDWIDTH, which is actually the 'important' number in terms of the calculation of how fast the memory is going to work. Roughly speaking, if you had 2000MHz effective memory clock on a 256-bit bus, it'd would have the same bandwidth as 4000MHz effective on a 128-bit bus ... and hence the memory subsystem would perform the same (more or less).
When you get into memory AMOUNTS, it gets tricky. More is not always better (although if it's totally free it's almost always better). Memory is the kind of thing where you either have ENOUGH for what you're trying to do, in which case having extra does NOTHING, or you don't have enough, in which case having more (such that you DO have enough) becomes critical ... i.e. your performance drops way off if you have too little memory. There's a TON of stuff that comes into play with regards to calculating 'how much you need' when it comes to vram, because every game is different. However all these cards have adequate memory for gaming at 1080p resolution or below.
The 2GB card is a joke, because it doesn't have nearly enough GPU power to 'push' an image that actually occupied 2GB worth of memory. Cross that one off your list for sure.
The reason the 460 is better than the 550 is this: the first digit refers to the 'generation' of card, i.e. the 4-series is older than the 5-series. The 2nd (and third in some cases) number though describes the 'level' of the card relative to it's generation. So while the 460 is older, it's a higher level card (6 level vs 5 level) ... usually it takes at least 2 generations before a 5-level card will be better than a 6-level card. So ... the 650 (which hasn't come out yet) may well be better than a 460, but the 550 is not.
LIke I said before though none of these specs apply to 2d movie viewing to any significant extent. These are specs that matter for 3d only. Any remotely decent GPU from 400-series up will rock blu-rays without breaking a sweat.
The best cards on your list for gaming, however, are:
560, 6850, and 460. The other (450 and 550, since they're 5-level cards) are way slower than those three. The regular 560, despite being newer than the 460, is really not much faster at all, because it's really the same technology in the 4 and 5-series afa those particular cards go. The 560 does run cooler though, it's more efficient. To get an actual BETTER 5-series card than the 460 1GB, you have to go with a 560ti 1GB.
Lastly, the core count is by far the most important spec among your cards here. However keep in mind that AMD core count (aka Stream Processors) and nV core count (i.e. CUDA cores) cannot be directly compared using raw counts. The 6850 has far more 'cores' than the nV cards, but it's really about the same speed as the 560 and 460. AMD and nV cores have different architectures.
Does that answer all your questions?

thanks for that, few more q's..

how much GPU power would you need to push 2gb worth of memory?

is the advantages of ddr5 quad vs ddr2/3 double noticeable on these level of cards? ie the 460?

if my bro wants the ability to watch 2 1080p vids on full screen on dual monitors, can a 520 level card do that, or do you need to step up into the 450/460 level?

it seems a 520 for $45 will do. but for another $50 you get the aesthetic of an enclosure. as of now i'm leaning towards the 460 depending on your answers to the above. if i do go 460, how is it in terms of fan noise? he wont be oc'ing, and temps wont be an issue. compare it to say a gtx285 noise wise and preformance wise.

thanks.
Edited by ryder - 5/5/12 at 12:24am
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post #10 of 13
The 520 would be your best bet if that is the cheapest gpu but the gpu wont matter as much if the software he is using does not use GPU acceleration which means the cpu is gonna matter alot more. And my 3 year old laptop with a Core 2 Duo 2.1ghz cpu with a 8400 GT dedicated video card with 512mb played blu rays just fine. First movie I watched on it was Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix. Didnt lag or anything during the whole movie and I also passed through 5.1 Surround sound to boot biggrin.gif
 
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