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[develop-online.net] Notch: EA methodically destroying gaming - Page 7

post #61 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

If it were up to Notch, PC gaming wouldn't be the same as we know it...you would see graphics take a massive decline, since graphics need a descent budget. And I'm sorry, I will never play Minecraft...ever. Seems like he managed to make a game more pointless and more time sucking than WOW. I think of Notch's work more like a fashion or fad. If you want to build and create, why not put forth your time to actually create something useful, like an actual map for an actual game, or your own game mod, or whatever. And please don't try to convince me my opinion would change if I only played Minecraft. I've seen videos and what everyone does with it. Mindless, in my opinion of course. And I can't imagine coding and developing this game to take any amount of time or effort, even for a single person. I mean, I could create every artistic asset from the entire game in a little as a few days, by myself. Not sure why this dude is now considered to be a genius, he's only a genius when it comes to time spent versus profit. Which is sort of what everyone here hates, maximum profit, minimum effort. Give Notch a AAA title and see what he can do with it...

All the stuff you've mentioned is a lot harder to design than Minecraft stuff, which can also be beautiful.

As for effort...Don't confuse graphical fidelity with effort. Map generation to the scale on Minecraft isn't easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serge2k View Post

I think in large part it is. Indie games are cool, bashing EA and their "AAA" titles is cool.
Of course that does stem somewhat from the things EA does that these indie games don't. DLC and DRM mostly. Of course EA has been using steam, and now Origin for a while now. Really not a huge issue. DLC is just a way to make money, don't like it then don't buy it.
EA is destroying gaming though? Reallly? How many millions of people enjoy their BF3. How many have played the entire Mass Effect series? Crysis?

EA is destroying gaming. Compare ME1, DA, etc (ie. Old Bioware) to EA realizing Bioware's games make them a lot of money Bioware. The same story has happened to so many other developers...Heck, Maxis is a great example. Look at what they did to Simcity.(Yes, it's coming back now but I'm still cautious)

There's also Need for Speed, their yearly sports titles, The Sims (Sims 1 was MUCH better than Sims 2 or Sims 3 for the time. Both are still great games but..yeah), Burnout, etc. Not to mention their marketing team clearly don't give a rats about gaming in the long term...Take DA2s marketing for example. They marketed it towards kids who really shouldn't be able to buy it. And Dante's Inferno, they had a wonderful opportunity to release a great game but instead the game was pretty crap (IMO) and they paid for picketers for marketing.
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post #62 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

EA is destroying gaming. Compare ME1, DA, etc (ie. Old Bioware) to EA realizing Bioware's games make them a lot of money Bioware. The same story has happened to so many other developers...Heck, Maxis is a great example. Look at what they did to Simcity.(Yes, it's coming back now but I'm still cautious)

There's also Need for Speed, their yearly sports titles, The Sims (Sims 1 was MUCH better than Sims 2 or Sims 3 for the time. Both are still great games but..yeah), Burnout, etc. Not to mention their marketing team clearly don't give a rats about gaming in the long term...Take DA2s marketing for example. They marketed it towards kids who really shouldn't be able to buy it. And Dante's Inferno, they had a wonderful opportunity to release a great game but instead the game was pretty crap (IMO) and they paid for picketers for marketing.

A lot of that is just opinionated tbh.

Need for Speed Shift 2 which released last year is probably one of the most heralded need for speed games. The studio who made the Shift games are now involved in their own self sustained, uniquely funded project called "Project C.A.R.S" and is currently my favourite racing game to play despite being in pre-alpha stage.

The Sims 1 was better than 2 and 3 in your opinion, but you still call them great games anyway so I dont see the relevance tbh. They also made the game with an ability to have a community inside and outside of the game as well as selling their expansions.

I had many hours of fun with Burnout: Paradise, which received a massive free update. If my PS3 wasn't still on loan (a year and a half is too long...) I'd still be having fun with it.

Dragon Age, well I don't know much tbh. Never really got into the first and never bothered with the second.

As far as the simcity games go of which I am a huge fan and have wanted a new one more than or as much as anyone. Societies was crud but it was developed by a different studio and it has as much to do with Sims+Simcity creator Will Wright saying he felt the older SimCity games were too complex, as it has to do with EA. All of Maxis' games have been successful. They gave another developer the chance to try creating a Simcity title but they flopped. Now Maxis is back on it and it's looking promising.

BF3 as morbid as certain people may treat it is doing very well and is getting more support from DICE than any Battlefield game in history.
Then there's the fact that the frostbite engine is being used in games like Fifa, Command and Conquer Generals 2 and MoH.

To mention the Fifa series again, they really made an effort to create a better experience as their crown was being taken by Pro Evolution Soccer (which I actually still prefer tbh) and they're on top again because they made a game that football fans enjoyed playing.


Sure they may do things or make things you personally don't like, but destroying gaming? Hard to take seriously.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 5/6/12 at 4:39pm
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post #63 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

You missed the entire point of my post. I realize and agree with many of your points, but with others, you are just misinformed, or you just misunderstood. And you just sort of danced around what I said, and only countered parts of it to which you had a preconceived argument for. Anyway, no offense, but that is about as much of a response as I feel like typing to you. Take that however you would like.

Fair enough thumb.gif
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post #64 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

A lot of that is just opinionated tbh.
Need for Speed Shift 2 which released last year is probably one of the most heralded need for speed games. The studio who made the Shift games are now involved in their own self sustained, uniquely funded project called "Project C.A.R.S" and is currently my favourite racing game to play despite being in pre-alpha stage.
The Sims 1 was better than 2 and 3 in your opinion, but you still call them great games anyway so I dont see the relevance tbh. They also made the game with an ability to have a community inside and outside of the game as well as selling their expansions.
I had many hours of fun with Burnout: Paradise, which received a massive free update. If my PS3 wasn't still on loan (a year and a half is too long...) I'd still be having fun with it.
Dragon Age, well I don't know much tbh. Never really got into the first and never bothered with the second.
As far as the simcity games go of which I am a huge fan and have wanted a new one more than or as much as anyone. Societies was crud but it was developed by a different studio and it has as much to do with Sims+Simcity creator Will Wright saying he felt the older SimCity games were too complex, as it has to do with EA. All of Maxis' games have been successful. They gave another developer the chance to try creating a Simcity title but they flopped. Now Maxis is back on it and it's looking promising.
BF3 as morbid as certain people may treat it is doing very well and is getting more support from DICE than any Battlefield game in history.
Then there's the fact that the frostbite engine is being used in games like Fifa, Command and Conquer Generals 2 and MoH.
To mention the Fifa series again, they really made an effort to create a better experience as their crown was being taken by Pro Evolution Soccer (which I actually still prefer tbh) and they're on top again because they made a game that football fans enjoyed playing.
Sure they may do things or make things you personally don't like, but destroying gaming? Hard to take seriously.

A lot is, yes. But you cannot deny that NfS had a down period (And I'm definitely not the only one who would say that, the majority of people would)

And Sims 1 was better for the time than Sims 2 or Sims 3 were/are. Both are great games but the cash-cow style of EA has gotten more and more prevalent and The Sims 2..well, it sucked at launch. Then you also have other additions such as the Sims 2 Stories Series (Nearly complete crap overall, "laptop" optimized by adjusting some default options and adding a few new items) and The Sims Medieval.

Paradise was good but it had a bad period like NfS did too.

DA1 was decent but DA2 sucked, and felt rushed.

EA should have let it be, I think. Will was right to say it was getting too complex but I can't help but feel he'd have done it very differently. Maxis also release a lot less games than they were, and Spore wasn't *that* successful.

BF3 is greatly successful and is still fun, but no-one can deny it felt rushed at first. As for support, BF2 had just as much so far.

They've changed a lot with their sports games but history proves EA will keep coming back to their same, old dirty tactics again. It's not EA specifically destroying gaming but the attitude they tend to have a lot of the time is. I could have worded it better.
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post #65 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by a pet rock View Post

Yes, everybody hates EA because they ruin game franchises, which is why I don't care about what quality EA puts out because the developer behind it will soon be out of business. The way their business model is designed, it is inevitable that all their developers will eventually disappear. Let's just look at Bioware. They made some really amazing games, (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter, Mass Effect 1, Jade Empire, KotoR) and then got bought out by EA. Now, they released some good ones immediately after that, too. Dragon Age: Origins was phenomenal, and I personally liked Mass Effect 2 even if overall it was a lot simpler than the first. And now take a look at the steaming pile of dung they call Dragon Age 2 and the entire fiasco with Mass Effect 3. I can only expect the next few Bioware games will not only completely suck but also not sell well and then Bioware will disappear in a couple years. When you buy an EA game, regardless of how good it is, you support this process of destroying good quality developers. DICE, Crytek, Bioware, Need for Speed, Command & Conquer, Rare. It is inevitable.

You make it sound like the developers never had a choice.

They chose to strike a deal with EA because it benefited their bottom line. They chose to rush their games in order to chase deadlines set by EA, because again it benefited their bottom line. They chose to dumb down their games in order to appeal to a wider audience, again because it benefited their bottom line.

Every single developer knows what EA are like, and yet they continue to side with them and destroy their own franchises. It's about time people started laying off the EA hate and started questioning the business models of the developers they hold so dear. They're all in it for the money, to believe anything else is foolish.
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post #66 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Disagree. Strongly.
I stopped supporting greedy business tactics and you should too. It's a loss for all consumers.

Oh I never even have. Never paid for a single game, except if I find they really deserve it because of the quality of the game.
 
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post #67 of 85
EA are money grabbing and butchering the gaming world slowly. They don't care about the developers just 100% profit. Origin is slowly becoming crapware. They don't have a clue what indie is!
post #68 of 85
silly claim by notch, but I dont like EA either.
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post #69 of 85
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Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

If it were up to Notch, PC gaming wouldn't be the same as we know it...you would see graphics take a massive decline, since graphics need a descent budget. And I'm sorry, I will never play Minecraft...ever. Seems like he managed to make a game more pointless and more time sucking than WOW. I think of Notch's work more like a fashion or fad. If you want to build and create, why not put forth your time to actually create something useful, like an actual map for an actual game, or your own game mod, or whatever. And please don't try to convince me my opinion would change if I only played Minecraft. I've seen videos and what everyone does with it. Mindless, in my opinion of course. And I can't imagine coding and developing this game to take any amount of time or effort, even for a single person. I mean, I could create every artistic asset from the entire game in a little as a few days, by myself. Not sure why this dude is now considered to be a genius, he's only a genius when it comes to time spent versus profit. Which is sort of what everyone here hates, maximum profit, minimum effort. Give Notch a AAA title and see what he can do with it...

This closed minded point of view is exactly why EA is getting away with what they are doing.

First, visual fidelity isn't everything, and never has been. I am not sure if you were around during the Golden Age of Gaming, but we didn't have visual fidelity. What we had were amazing story lines to follow and the core game play carried the game, not the visuals. Just because something is visually stunning doesn't make the content better, you can paint a turd gold, it is still a turd. Games like Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, Dragon Warrior, the original Mario, the greats of the day!

The problem people have with EA is how they want to control and dominate the product, and the people using it. They dominate and push their Studios to the ground! Look at Star Wars The Old Republic, BioWare did not want to release when they did, they knew it wasn't ready. Yet EA put them under their heel and applied pressure, they wanted money, and they didn't care about the state of the product. EA has done this on several occasions, and to the detriment of the player, and because of this the players are fighting back. It is also the fact they are hell bent on removing the used game market from the face of this earth. These reasons are why their stocks have dropped over 25% since the start of this year, and they are struggling, it is why people hate them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serge2k View Post

I think in large part it is. Indie games are cool, bashing EA and their "AAA" titles is cool.
Of course that does stem somewhat from the things EA does that these indie games don't. DLC and DRM mostly. Of course EA has been using steam, and now Origin for a while now. Really not a huge issue. DLC is just a way to make money, don't like it then don't buy it.
EA is destroying gaming though? Reallly? How many millions of people enjoy their BF3. How many have played the entire Mass Effect series? Crysis?

The answer to your question as to how they are destroying it can be found in what I said above, mostly.

You need to remember that EA is not a developer, or a studio, they are a big corporation that wants money and lots of it. They at every turn stifle innovation within the industry, and their one and only concern is how to make as much money as possible. Making money isn't a bad thing, it is good, but when it comes at the greater expense of being detrimental to the industry as whole, the industry loss isn't justified by your individual profit.
    
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post #70 of 85
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Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post

You make it sound like the developers never had a choice.
They chose to strike a deal with EA because it benefited their bottom line. They chose to rush their games in order to chase deadlines set by EA, because again it benefited their bottom line. They chose to dumb down their games in order to appeal to a wider audience, again because it benefited their bottom line.
Every single developer knows what EA are like, and yet they continue to side with them and destroy their own franchises. It's about time people started laying off the EA hate and started questioning the business models of the developers they hold so dear. They're all in it for the money, to believe anything else is foolish.

I also wonder why some of these developers continue to deal with EA if they are destroying gaming. Indie devs are in it all for the money too. You really think indie companies would spend time making these games (innovative or not) just for fun and wouldn't care if they made a dime off it? They all want money...period, just like EA, Valve, Activision, etc.

Also, if these are not to be considered indie games, why does Steam even list them as indie games? Plus, EA is the publisher...so why wouldn't they be able to package an indie bundle with the games they published? I really just don't care I guess. EA has to be doing something to help devs otherwise why would they continue to contract with them?
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Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Video Games - General › [develop-online.net] Notch: EA methodically destroying gaming