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post #71 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post

You make it sound like the developers never had a choice.
They chose to strike a deal with EA because it benefited their bottom line. They chose to rush their games in order to chase deadlines set by EA, because again it benefited their bottom line. They chose to dumb down their games in order to appeal to a wider audience, again because it benefited their bottom line.
Every single developer knows what EA are like, and yet they continue to side with them and destroy their own franchises. It's about time people started laying off the EA hate and started questioning the business models of the developers they hold so dear. They're all in it for the money, to believe anything else is foolish.

I disagree. Publicly traded companies can't always prevent hostile takeovers. Valve, for instance, does not have to worry about that because nobody else has a stake in the company. Even if a company is privately-owned, the owner can decide to get out of the business and sell against developers wishes.

Second, if you honestly think that money as a sole extrinsic motivation is actually successful in a complex and creative workplace like video game developing, then you need to start taking a look at modern research into motivation. Studies have proven time and time again that throwing more money at complex problems actually results in decreased performance. If you don't believe me, ask yourself where Encarta is and why wikipedia is still around.
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post #72 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by a pet rock View Post

I disagree. Publicly traded companies can't always prevent hostile takeovers. Valve, for instance, does not have to worry about that because nobody else has a stake in the company. Even if a company is privately-owned, the owner can decide to get out of the business and sell against developers wishes.
Second, if you honestly think that money as a sole extrinsic motivation is actually successful in a complex and creative workplace like video game developing, then you need to start taking a look at modern research into motivation. Studies have proven time and time again that throwing more money at complex problems actually results in decreased performance. If you don't believe me, ask yourself where Encarta is and why wikipedia is still around.

I'm not sure you actually addressed what he was saying.

He was making the point that while EA are seen as the big bad wolf, the little piggies keep going to them and asking them to build houses.

The point being that if the companies that EA buy "know" that selling to apparently means the death of their company in order to gain backing from a huge enterprise, then it's not only EA who are to blame for the demise of the company.

Obviously we are not talking on a dev by dev basis, but if as you say, the owner of a private development company wants out and decides to sell to EA against the other workers wishes, then obviously things aren't going to go smoothly thereafter.

However, that has as much to do with the head of the company deciding he wants EAs money and relinquishing leadership as it has to do with EA being "greedy".

I guess a good question to ask would be that if development companies feel the need to have EA behind them to be successful, then do we really know what they would have been capable otherwise, without EAs backing? Surely there is a reason why they decided EA was right for them?
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 5/7/12 at 1:50pm
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post #73 of 85
I'm sorry, but I thought I had addressed that when I said publicly traded companies can't always protect themselves against hostile takeovers. Hostile being the keyword. I can't say I know the circumstances of all of EA's acquisitions, but just because they are purchased it does not follow that the developers were okay with it.
Edited by a pet rock - 5/7/12 at 2:02pm
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post #74 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by a pet rock View Post

I'm sorry, but I thought I had addressed that when I said publicly traded companies can't always protect themselves against hostile takeovers. Hostile being the keyword. I can't say I know the circumstances of all of EA's acquisitions, but just because they are purchased it does not follow that the developers were okay with it.

So, in a nutshell, you don't hold any devs responsible for their own actions as long as EA is somehow involved? I bet you (without google) don't know whether EA has ever done a "hostile" take over
or not...It's just more EA hate spreading...I'm sorry, but I know for a FACT, no matter what they think right now, gamers would miss EA a lot more than Notch if they both dropped off the planet.
post #75 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

So, in a nutshell, you don't hold any devs responsible for their own actions as long as EA is somehow involved? I bet you (without google) don't know whether EA has ever done a "hostile" take over
or not...It's just more EA hate spreading...I'm sorry, but I know for a FACT, no matter what they think right now, gamers would miss EA a lot more than Notch if they both dropped off the planet.

Exactly. This forum reads like a fox news comments section sometimes the way people get upset about things that might be or could be true instead of ever bothering to actually try and know the truth. "Obama.......might be Muslim.....could be a terrorist.....might not be American.....could be the antichrist.....might be trying to turn children into soldiers......could be re-instating the draft.....might be trying to give "the blacks" power......could be racist.....blahhhblahhhblahhh"

In many respects it's really too similar to actual news channels for my liking. People IMHO don't have what it takes to be able to come to their own conclusions about things, especially when they form their opinions from other peoples opinions shaped as news and just run with it.

When you attempt to talk to people about it, it' just the same regurgitated lines over and over and over.

It's as you say, if EA were to do as people say and say "you're right, we're not good for gaming, we're just a business trying to make money. We'll leave you gamers and do something else now so that other businesses who are apparently not trying to make money can provide funding for your favourite devs", we'd have:

-No boxing games at all. I'm a huge boxing/fight night fan.
-The best football (it's not called soccer ¬_¬) game around would go missing.
-No Sims
-No SimCity
-No Command and Conquer Generals 2
-No Battlefield
-No Medal of Honor
-No Need for Speed

Basically some of the best selling and/or most loved franchises in history would evaporate.

Now that would be EA ACTUALLY destroying gaming for millions upon millions of people around the world and not just a vocal minority of people, many of whom are complaining to defend Steam as much as they are complaining because they actually have a problem with EA.
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post #76 of 85
EA's monopoly on NFL is the reason I haven't bought a football game since NFL 2K
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post #77 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

So, in a nutshell, you don't hold any devs responsible for their own actions as long as EA is somehow involved? I bet you (without google) don't know whether EA has ever done a "hostile" take over
or not...It's just more EA hate spreading...I'm sorry, but I know for a FACT, no matter what they think right now, gamers would miss EA a lot more than Notch if they both dropped off the planet.

You wouldn't have to bet. I specifically said, "I can't say I know the circumstances of all of EA's acquisitions". You even quoted it.

Second, I want to stress the difference between the individual people who are developers working at companies from the developing company. I know they are both called developers which makes it tricky when you want to distinguish between the two. Suffice to say, when so many of the veteran developers (people) leave Bioware on differences with the company/management I can assume that those developers (people) are unhappy with the move of the developer (company).

And given that the only thing I know Notch for is Minecraft, and I haven't even looked at that game, you might be right. There might be a time when EA buys another good studio that is capable of churning out a few more good games until they too are run under the grindstone and disappear. I might miss that opportunity to play those games that come in a very, very brief period where developer autonomy meets EA's advertising and availability to create something worthwhile like Dragon Age: Origins. But missing EA over Notch is the same as saying I'd miss that bully in Jr. High more than some dude I've never met in China. At least I met the bully.




I want to reiterate that it's completely obvious that all companies have the intention of making money. The difference is that other companies, like say CDPR, also strive for quality products.
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post #78 of 85
Hi. I'm a gaming company and we've got a great piece of work in the pipeline, but no way to get it out to the general public. The future of our company relies on the success of this game and if we wish to continue making great games we must ensure that this one is at least marginally successful by having a successful publisher. Not having a successful publisher is a guaranteed way to bankrupcy, while having a successful publisher carries the risk of the publisher throttling our creativity, acquiring our company through financial or legal greymail, or getting us blacklisted should we ever decide to part ways on less than genial terms. While the latter method is very risky, it is still preferable over guaranteed failure, so we have come to you, Mr. Publisher, to make a deal.


^^^^ Every game developer to ever be eaten and destroyed by EA.

When a desparate man is backed up against a cliffs edge by a ravenous lion with naught but to defend himself but a pocket knife, he must make the decision to either jump off the edge of the cliff or take his chances with the lion. You, as an observer, have the luxury of being able to understand that it really is not a decision at all, but rather one equal act of desparation or another when faced with two impossible realities.
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post #79 of 85
Ganf, your situation relies on one condition, that EA are the only publisher out there.

You would be incorrect in thinking that, not all publishers are as draconian as EA, ergo they should chose another publisher...
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post #80 of 85
Assuming other publishers would take them. We don't have to discuss the dozens of things that could possibly mediate a game being a viable project for the various different types of publishers out there, do we?

Or even that said publishers would be any different than choosing no publisher at all, again, due to many various circumstances..
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