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[Softpedia] AMD Trinity Architectural Preview - Page 2

post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post

Havent we agreed that SuperPi is an outdated benchmark using old instructionsets that AMD dont use anymore?
Anyone who thinks SuperPI is outdated needs to understand the very basics of computer programming. Even if that were the case (which its un-theoretical), Trinity has many more instructions then Llano. So it would be in the benefit margin of that area. Back on topic it looks like Trinity is only faster then Llano because of clock speed. I hope this is not the case and the leaked benchmark is fake (im guessing so as FM2 boards haven't even been announced yet). Strange thing is if you reset them back to stock, according to the benchmark Trinity will have around a 10% increase in CPU performance over Llano. Simply because of the clock speeds. I hope AMD isn't capitalizing on the rumored 10% IPC improvement, when in fact it could be just a higher clocked Llano. Still I would be happy with a suped-up 3870k @ 3.8Ghz with a newer generation of graphics.
Edited by Warmonger - 5/7/12 at 3:09am
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post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_gunjee View Post

I'm hoping the same, but the lack of mentioning IPC vs IPS on top of the (up to) 31% increase in clock speed would lead one to believe that the frequency boost would be responsible for the majority of performance gain. Of course we can't be sure at this point, just a little theoretical food for thought.
On the other hand, if stock frequencies are really that much higher without increase in power consumption compared to last gen, then I would say just as well.
That may be so, but comparing one AMD cpu to another would still be an indicator of difference in performance. By that logic, comparing an Intel CPU to AMD would be the situation where results would be less relevant.

Its only relevant if they are build on the same arcitecture, if Trinity has removed old instructionsets its useless
post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post

Havent we agreed that SuperPi is an outdated benchmark using old instructionsets that AMD dont use anymore?
Anyone who thinks SuperPI is outdated needs to understand the very basics of computer programming. Even if that were the case (which its un-theoretical), Trinity has many more instructions then Llano. So it would be in the benefit margin of that area. Back on topic it looks like Trinity is only faster then Llano because of clock speed. I hope this is not the case and the leaked benchmark is fake (im guessing so as FM2 boards haven't even been announced yet). Strange thing is if you reset them back to stock, according to the benchmark Trinity will have around a 10% increase in CPU performance over Llano. Simply because of the clock speeds. I hope AMD isn't globalizing on the rumored 10% IPC improvement, when in fact it could be just a higher clocked Llano. Still I would be happy with a suped-up 3870k @ 3.8Ghz with a newer generation of graphics.

Wait how does that answer his question? If Trinity doesn't support an old instruction set then its at a disadvantage regardless of what other new instruction sets it supports. The test would be more fair if it was done on a program that uses an instruction set that both Llano and Trinity are optimized for. I'm not very educated in the intricacies of computing, but can you explain the logic behind your argument?


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post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Wait how does that answer his question? If Trinity doesn't support an old instruction set then its at a disadvantage regardless of what other new instruction sets it supports. The test would be more fair if it was done on a program that uses an instruction set that both Llano and Trinity are optimized for. I'm not very educated in the intricacies of computing, but can you explain the logic behind your argument?
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Its simple, SuperPI performs a calculation of numbers. SuperPI was compiled back in 1995, im certain both Trinity and Llano would be missing the outdated instruction set. Hence it wouldn't make much of a difference using it to benchmark and compare these two processors. As this isn't a Intel vs AMD debate, so there is no possibility of skewed results. Lastly I will add Trinity should have most if not all of Llano instruction sets, and then some. So how does it perform worse then Llano in SuperPI? Instruction sets play no role here as they are working against the desired result.
Edited by Warmonger - 5/7/12 at 3:44am
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post #15 of 46
Base A6-3400M speed: 1.4ghz. Base A10-4600M speed: 2.3ghz. The 3420M was a new stepping, only got the A6 to 1.6ghz stock. There's probably an A8 at 1.8ghz. Still, Trinity has a big clockspeed advantage for mobile, and for desktop. If it's 15% slower in IPC.. the clocks more than make up for it.

Tell me why you guys are arguing Stars vs. Piledriver cores at the same clockspeed, when the Trinity APUs will be clocked higher at stock? Pointless bickering, especially considering on the desktop side, Trinity will probably clock higher than Llano. IIRC, most Llano APUs can't break 4ghz, at stock the A8-3850 is 2.9ghz, and at stock the A10-5800k is 3.8ghz/4.2ghz turbo.

Just a tip (to nobody in particular), skewing data when you're arguing numbers will just make you look stupid.
Edited by jrbroad77 - 5/7/12 at 4:10am
 
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post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Base A6-3400M speed: 1.4ghz. Base A10-4600M speed: 2.3ghz. The 3420M was a new stepping, only got the A6 to 1.6ghz stock. There's probably an A8 at 1.8ghz. Still, Trinity has a big clockspeed advantage for mobile, and for desktop. If it's 15% slower in IPC.. the clocks more than make up for it.
Tell me why you guys are arguing Stars vs. Piledriver cores at the same clockspeed, when the Trinity APUs will be clocked higher at stock? Pointless bickering, especially considering on the desktop side, Trinity will probably clock higher than Llano. IIRC, most Llano APUs can't break 4ghz, at stock the A8-3850 is 2.9ghz, and at stock the A10-5800k is 3.8ghz/4.2ghz turbo.
Just a tip (to nobody in particular), skewing data when you're arguing numbers will just make you look stupid.

This is close to the point I was making as well when referring to high stock clock speeds in post #10.
Thanx for bringing the thread back on topic. smile.gif
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post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_gunjee View Post

I'm afraid the 26% in overall system performance includes the GPU part as well, which probably means very small (if any) increase in CPU power over Zambezi chips. Gotta love marketing.. rolleyes.gif
334
Not sure what you mean...
    
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post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallynotshooped View Post

334
Not sure what you mean...

I may not have worded my post well. What I mean is I have a fear (which I hope is not true) that the total 'productivity increase' or the increase in 'system performance' will come more from increased GPU power from the APU package rather than more performance from the CPU cores.
I should actually retract that first comment for a couple of reasons. One being that my original thought was based on performance of Bulldozer vs Piledriver cores, which I realized isn't relevant after considering this is in comparison to the last generation of APU's.
Second reason is the references that I and others have made about the drastic increase in stock clock speeds potentially bringing CPU performance up quite a bit compared to Llano.
So yeah, I must admit that my first comment in this thread was kind of a "Doh!" redface.gif

While my first post was a bit off, the slide you posted doesn't really contradict anything I said. I wasnt denying performance increases of the total package.
Edited by metal_gunjee - 5/7/12 at 4:49am
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post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Its simple, SuperPI performs a calculation of numbers. SuperPI was compiled back in 1995, im certain both Trinity and Llano would be missing the outdated instruction set. Hence it wouldn't make much of a difference using it to benchmark and compare these two processors. As this isn't a Intel vs AMD debate, so there is no possibility of skewed results. Lastly I will add Trinity should have most if not all of Llano instruction sets, and then some. So how does it perform worse then Llano in SuperPI? Instruction sets play no role here as they are working against the desired result.

The A8 had to be overclocked to reach 3.8ghz, which means it might have an advantage since they raised the base clock. Should have used a 3870k or underclocked the trinity chip.
So, even if superpi is a useful benchmark, the test wasn't done properly anyway.
Edited by qwertymac93 - 5/7/12 at 4:57am
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post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post

The A8 had to be overclocked to reach 3.8ghz, which means it might have an advantage since they raised the base clock. Would have been better if they used a 3870k or underclocked the trinity chip.
That may be, but I honestly don't see where 33Mhz in base clock will shave off 3 seconds of crunch time. Keep in mind im only basing this off of numbers I found on the web. Tho if AMD slides are correct, I already figured out there would be a 10% increase in performance from clock frequency alone, then AMD claims 10% IPC increase, so the slides rumored 26% processing performance increase could be correct. Its just too hard to say or tell anything without having the chip in your hand. Can only hope for the best.
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