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[TPU] OCZ Releases Firmware Enhancement for Vertex 4 SSDs and Intros 64 GB Model - Page 3

post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

#1) It is not an excuse. It is reality. Do you understand how hard and time consuming validation is? If you want great validation, then be prepared to send 50-300% more for every product.... which means just purchasing enterprise-only products. Even some of the drives you listed has had issues:
Crucial M4 - had the 5000hr on time BSOD bug.
Intel X-25M - had the BIOS password bug AND the TRIM firmware brick bug.
Samsung 830 - had a update bug with firmware CXM02B1Q
In addition, the Intel 320 had a power loss brick bug.
#3) It does not matter 5000 vs 3000 P/E cycles for 99.9% of SSD users. You're talking about 8 vs 13 years of normal usage. OCZ should have been more forthright in labeling the new drives (and they have been since by different SKUs).
#4) That is the price you pay for SLC and enterprise-level validation.
The physical controller does not really matter much. The firmware is what really matters. Intel actually says that they basically resolved any Sandforce bugs and this is the reason why they are so late to the market with them.
No, ALL Sandforce controllers had the bug... Corsair, Kingston, all of them.
Not really.... all companies are trying to improve reliability on two fronts:
1) Ensuring that the NAND lasts via ECC
2) Validation, validation, validation..... and more validation. However, there is only so much you can do within reason.
Pointless because a user can just run RAID1 if needed.
Since when did you NOT have to think about data loss with a HDD?

the device I was speaking about is a all-in-one device, without the need to set the raid array.
Sell my dad 2 hard drives and tell him to set them in raid.

He won't do it, unless it comes all done already.
post #22 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shozzking View Post


Actually, Corsair recalled an entire batch of 120GB drives (covering shipping and any costs required to replace them). OCZ provided terrible customer service throughout the entire firmware debacle. They didn't want to admit that the issue was with the firmware, blaming faulty sata cables and improper user configuration instead. I will never buy from OCZ again.

This speaks volumes!
It shows their attitude regarding my person, as a customer.
post #23 of 59
So for me to put the new firmware on my drive I will have to reformat? Is this correct?
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post #24 of 59
I'm ordering a Vertex 4 128gb today, OCZ gets way too much hate. Their ram was great, I still use a PSU by them and I've never had any problems. Haters gonna hate, and I think I'll be getting a great drive tongue.gif
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post #25 of 59
I remember there was an outrage a year ago or something in various forums where people was fed up with OCZ and decided to rate down everything OCZ sold. They have lost so many customers with their shady business.

Even their own forum was flooded by angry customers
post #26 of 59
Also, regarding the 25nm ssd's sold as 34nm, I don't really care if OCZ started using 25nm NAND. AS LONG AS IT WAS PROPERLY LABELLED, what they did was prey on consumers by changing the internal parts of their products without informing the public. This would be akin to Intel switching their Sandy Bridge line of CPUs over to a 45nm architecture (less efficient and needs more power) without informing anyone. Would you be angry if you bought an i7-2600k and received something that overclocked and ran similarly to an i7-920? Yes, of course you would, why does the same not apply to SSD's?

I hope that we can agree that OCZ is a bad company with shady business practices and no respect towards the consumer.
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post #27 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abs.exe View Post

the device I was speaking about is a all-in-one device, without the need to set the raid array.
Sell my dad 2 hard drives and tell him to set them in raid.
He won't do it, unless it comes all done already.

Unless you are able to replace an individual drive in this RAID 1 "package," it's not going to be a very viable solution. Once one of them fails, you are back to running on just one, waiting for it to fail.

Instead of paying for another RAID controller with two built-in SSD's, a person would be better off just buying two SSD's and using the on-board RAID. Once the RAID 1 is set up, it's a cake walk from there on out. I personally don't see an all-in-one package simplifying anything when it comes to redundancy.

This is probably the same reason you don't see anyone selling HDD's with built-in RAID 1.
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post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outcasst View Post

I don't trust OCZ and firmware updates
What I don't understand is why everyone proceeded to update their firmware for the Vertex 3 even after learning of the issues... I left mine alone and have not had a single problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shozzking View Post

Also, regarding the 25nm ssd's sold as 34nm, I don't really care if OCZ started using 25nm NAND. AS LONG AS IT WAS PROPERLY LABELLED, what they did was prey on consumers by changing the internal parts of their products without informing the public. This would be akin to Intel switching their Sandy Bridge line of CPUs over to a 45nm architecture (less efficient and needs more power) without informing anyone. Would you be angry if you bought an i7-2600k and received something that overclocked and ran similarly to an i7-920? Yes, of course you would, why does the same not apply to SSD's?

I hope that we can agree that OCZ is a bad company with shady business practices and no respect towards the consumer.
I like when people draw arbitrary lines in the sand. You own an Nvidia product, a company whose history is rife with shady practices. We own Intel products - a company also caught doing shady things, albeit not lately.

Besides, didn't OCZ replace the drives people bought with 34nm flash drives of similar performance? And were the drives really explicitly advertised as having 34nm flash in the first place? I would like to see evidence of purposeful wrongdoing before passing judgement. I try to do research before buying a product and saw no such evidence before I bought the Vertex 3 drives.
Edited by stargate125645 - 5/7/12 at 12:21pm
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post #29 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudfire777 View Post

You just don`t get it or don`t want to DuckieHo:
OCZ with their drives had MUCH more BSODs, drives that died, etc than all the other drives.
Samsung, Intel, Crucial, Kingston, all of them much more reliable drives than OCZ. The Samsung bug and the Crucial bug isn`t even remotely close to the complete mess Sandforce was.
And no, Intel have not resolved the Sandforce bug completely. If they say that, its a lie, a marketing lie. They still *occasianally* get the traditional BSOD bug due to the firmware still not patched fully, but its improving.
End of discussion. Still don`t want to believe me, go read customer satisfaction ratings etc. I have studied tons of them. I have even done a huge a thoroughly statistic investigation of all SSDs in the market. Well almost every single one of them. OCZ was dead last in reliability
And I am done with this discussion. Good day.
I do get it... but also know not to much such broad generalizations.

OCZ also had higher volume than all other SandForce-based drives.

If you are asserting that... just provide your methodology, dataset, and analysis then? thumb.gif
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Once again...
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post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Why?
1) ALL SandForce-based (except Intel) were having issues.
2) Intel, Micron, Indilinx, and SandForce based SSDs have had firmware issues in the past.

This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudfire777 View Post

Because
A) OCZ have used their customers as beta testers. They didn`t bother to get stable working drives before releasing it to the public. No sir, to them it is "Just wait for firmware number 999.9" and your problems will disappear.
B) They are many times pretty strict about returns and giving out new drives because of what I said in A). The customers wait several months for the new firmware, and it fixes nothing.
C) They sold 25nm SSDs as 34nm and didn`t tell the customers about it. Customer then paid a premium for less life expectancy
D) Intel have had problems in the past like you said, but with Intel X25-M which is the most reliable drive you can ever find, they actually *fixed* the problems.
As for reliability and stable drives, Sandforce are at the very bottom.
But by all means, go buy a Sandforce SSD and gamble. I know that most customers want a plug and play drive, not having to struggle with something as precious as your SSD that your computer won`t function without

Firmware won't be perfect right on release (if it is, good job to the manufacturer).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

1) The reality is that SSD firmware validation is time-consuming and expensive. This is probably one of the biggest issues facing SSD controller today. Even Intel reknown for their validation has had issues.... twice.
2) Yeah, that was an issue with OCZ CS.
3) The life expectancy of the NAND is a moot point... it does not matter to the vast majority of users. Actually, I believe the real issue was that less physical NAND was being used. Therefore, the reduce channels lead to worse performance.
4) X25-E is actually more reliable. wink.gif Samsung and Toshiba SSDs are actually also known to be reliable as well...
If SandForce is at the bottom, then why is Intel shipping 2-3 different SandForce-based SDDs?
It's not a rebadge..... It is Indilinx firmware running on Marvell hardware. With SSDs, the firmware is by far the most important "component".

This.

Didn't think so. Indilinx isn't Sandforce, so I have no idea where his argument is coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

As mingqi53 mentioned, Vertex 4 isn't even Sandforce based.

Yup.
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