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post #101 of 111
It's not that absurd really, it just means they've never considered PC as a gaming platform - and they're ready to go to whatever lengths it takes to hold that notion. This is Epic games we're talking about here, their policy is to maintain a certain level of density/stupidity at all times.
post #102 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post

It's not that absurd really, it just means they've never considered PC as a gaming platform - and they're ready to go to whatever lengths it takes to hold that notion. This is Epic games we're talking about here, their policy is to maintain a certain level of density/stupidity at all times.

No what it means is they've turned their back on the people who got them where they were in the first place, for profits and easy money.

You can make buffed up muscly retard characters with zero depth and people eat em up.

I could make GoW characters in my sleep.

The only area where Epic has any clout in my opinion, and that's very little, is the middleware business. The UDK is an excellent way for gamers to strike out on their own with a AAA game engine.

UE3 can make some very good games at studios that actually have talent.

Super MNC, Blacklight, Tribes, etc, those are some lesser known (and f2p!) games that are better than 80% of the crud that Epic's put out in the last 10 years.
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post #103 of 111
it better not be like when crysis got released. that's a lesson that everyone should learned about.
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post #104 of 111
Actually, when it comes to implementation, consoles are on the bleeding edge of graphics.

Deferred rendering is a technique employed on many consoles games and yet, rarer on PC games.

Just take a look at the # of console games that employ the technique:
Quote:
Alan Wake
Bioshock Infinite[11]
Blur
Brink
Crackdown and Crackdown 2[12]
Crysis 2[13]
Dead Space[14] and Dead Space 2[15]
Deus Ex: Human Revolution [16]
Grand Theft Auto IV
Halo: Reach [17]
inFamous and inFamous 2[18]
LittleBigPlanet and LittleBigPlanet 2[19]
Shift 2 UNLEASHED [20]
Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, Clear Sky and Call of Prypiat[21]
Red Dead Redemption
Resistance series[22]
StarCraft II [23]
Uncharted and Uncharted 2[24]
Vanquish [25]
Battlefield 3[26]
Dungeons
Killzone 2 and Killzone 3[27]
Mafia 2
Metro 2033[28]
Rift
Shrek[29]
Splinter Cell: Conviction
Tabula Rasa[30]
Trine
Viva Pinata
Dota 2[31]

Halo 3 is the only game that I know of in existence that combines global lighting + HDR. Rasterization tech usually develops of PC and well implemented on consoles. High dynamic range lighting was introduced in DirectX 9 for PC over ten years ago but yet the widespread use didn't occur until this generation of console.

You guys were always saying that "consoles are holding back PC" yet when Tim Sweeney makes a statement about console graphics
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post #105 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Actually, when it comes to implementation, consoles are on the bleeding edge of graphics. Deferred rendering is a technique employed on many consoles games and yet, rarer on PC games.

There are drawbacks when using deferred shading and lighting.

Also, in your list, I'm pretty sure the STALKER series is not available for consoles and that's simply the list of games implementing deferred lighting.

But you didn't finish your thought wink.gif
Edited by _02 - 5/15/12 at 5:44am
    
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post #106 of 111
No, he didn't finish his thought. And who cares that much about techniques used by game designers to attempt to get decent graphics out of ancient hardware (like consoles)? Unless of course it's the guy who managed to get 24FPS full motion video out of a 4 colour text mode on a 4.77MHz 8088. The rigs of almost every single poster in this thread put current consoles to shame with their power.

Deferred rendering isn't a technology, it's a coding technique that is being used to push the severely limited hardware to its' limits. Consoles ARE holding us back, because such techniques are a cludge, and to quote the same wiki article..
Quote:
One key disadvantage of deferred rendering is the inability to handle transparency within the algorithm, although this problem is a generic one in Z-buffered scenes and it tends to be handled by delaying and sorting the rendering of transparent portions of the scene.[2] Depth peeling can be used to achieve order-independent transparency in deferred rendering, but at the cost of additional batches and g-buffer size. Modern hardware, supporting DirectX 10 and later, is often capable of performing batches fast enough to maintain interactive frame rates
Important part bolded.
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post #107 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by allikat View Post

No, he didn't finish his thought. And who cares that much about techniques used by game designers to attempt to get decent graphics out of ancient hardware (like consoles)? Unless of course it's the guy who managed to get 24FPS full motion video out of a 4 colour text mode on a 4.77MHz 8088. The rigs of almost every single poster in this thread put current consoles to shame with their power.
Deferred rendering isn't a technology, it's a coding technique that is being used to push the severely limited hardware to its' limits. Consoles ARE holding us back, because such techniques are a cludge,


Who cares that you need GPUs with 30x the shading power for no appreciable gains? Comparing the per pixel quality, consoles match or exceed PC quality. Where the CPU is concerned, consoles match or exceed PC and this was the sole reason for deferred rendering; less CPU overhead. There isn't some latent API getting in the way of rendering. The reason you dont see more PC games like Crysis 1 is because too much time is wasted on a per frame, per pixel basis. This was the sole reason for the switch to a more efficient CryEngine 3. CryEngine 2 used a high precision FP32 render target, whereas a much lighter CryEngine 3 uses an FP16 renderer.

The API is holding the PC back... PC is holding back itself. Why do you think GPUs are becoming more general purpose? The kicker is that, software aka the API, will still need to be written to take advantage of the new compute features and they still need to be implemented. Its a revolving door of inefficiency/
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post

There are drawbacks when using deferred shading and lighting.
Also, in your list, I'm pretty sure the STALKER series is not available for consoles and that's simply the list of games implementing deferred lighting.
But you didn't finish your thought wink.gif

Most of the games on the list are console games... My point still stands. There are drawbacks to every kind of rendering. Compared to the thousands of games that get released on PC every year, the number that actually pushes graphics tech is pretty minuscule.

The first dedicated GPU also appeared in consoles before they did PC. Drawing was already integrated before we had APUs. The technology will converge and diverge.
Edited by BizzareRide - 5/15/12 at 7:41am
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post #108 of 111
Quote:
"When you look for the best graphics available in the whole game industry today, you look at Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, and those games are the best out there, bar none."

LOL what?
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post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

The API is holding the PC back... PC is holding back itself. Why do you think GPUs are becoming more general purpose? The kicker is that, software aka the API, will still need to be written to take advantage of the new compute features and they still need to be implemented. Its a revolving door of inefficiency/

Ive been saying this for the longest time. Unfortunately getting a PC elitist to even consider that is impossible. It deflates the superiority complex lol
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post #110 of 111
How is UE4 going to be Kepler only? Durango has already been outed as using ATI graphics on par with the current 7000 series GPU's. If this point has already been made then I apologize for being a lazy SOB and not reading the entire thread. Gotta get back to Diablo III, ya know?
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