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[CPU-World] AMD readies R-series embedded APUs - Page 9

post #81 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

People are stuck on this idea that these APU's are good in desktops but I'm not convinced. In laptops I've seen how great they are, but in desktops I've been underwhelmed!

Please explain how these APU's are underwhelming for people who would otherwise have bought a GT210. Are you saying you really need the fastest possible CPU for your average office work?
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post #82 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

People are stuck on this idea that these APU's are good in desktops but I'm not convinced.
Wait until Trinity, first generation of anything isn't always the best. Trinity's performance should be equivalent to a system with a FX-4100 (with faster Piledriver cores) with a HD 6650m (maybe close to desktop HD 6570). At a price point rumored to be lower then a 2500k. If Piledriver delivers it will beat out the Phenom II line. So for a A10-5800k it would be more then worth the $150 range. Not to mention you can buy a single discrete card later to crossfire with the on-die graphics. Pretty much any budget builders dream (around $500). And still be able to play the latest games on med-high settings.
Edited by Warmonger - 5/12/12 at 1:01am
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post #83 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee7283 View Post

HD 2000 sucks though, can you even play any modern game with it?
I do like the Celeron G530 though, I used it for two friend builds so far but used AMD card with them.
I can play torchlight, and can only play killing floor on low with my native resolution (720p) on my Celeron notebook; so no, not really.
    
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post #84 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

The topics not about desktop, is it? And AMD budget is the best, IMO. Most tasks a gamer would do, you don't need an extremely fast CPU and the difference between a Celeron and Llano is nearly nothing. Llano would get higher FPS if you got a dedicated AMD GPU if there was hybrid CFX action happening too. I can see the arguments for the G530 though, they're great little CPUs.

It kind of is. Read how I even got onto the subject. It's not about needing an extremely fast CPU its the fact this thing is £20 cheaper than the cheapest desktop A series. I've already said that if you were going to crossfire then the APU'S viable but not exactly the best solution for future proofing because the CPU is weak.

It comes back to the fact that it's £20 cheaper but a great margin better.

People using their computer for office and Web browsing don't need the APU power, so don't need to spend £20 more for a weaker cpu and better GPU. Intel has the budget upper hand there in that situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Please explain how these APU's are underwhelming for people who would otherwise have bought a GT210. Are you saying you really need the fastest possible CPU for your average office work?

So are you saying it makes sense to spend £20 more on a CPU that is worse? It's not about needing the fastest possible CPU for office work its the price. £30 and it's much better than the APU chips. Office workers and none gamers don't need the GPU in the APU'S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Wait until Trinity, first generation of anything isn't always the best. Trinity's performance should be equivalent to a system with a FX-4100 (with faster Piledriver cores) with a HD 6650m (maybe close to desktop HD 6570). At a price point rumored to be lower then a 2500k. If Piledriver delivers it will beat out the Phenom II line. So for a A10-5800k it would be more then worth the $150 range. Not to mention you can buy a single discrete card later to crossfire with the on-die graphics. Pretty much any budget builders dream (around $500). And still be able to play the latest games on med-high settings.

For gaming? This ^
Edited by Rubers - 5/12/12 at 5:24am
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post #85 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

It kind of is. Read how I even got onto the subject. It's not about needing an extremely fast CPU its the fact this thing is £20 cheaper than the cheapest desktop A series. I've already said that if you were going to crossfire then the APU'S viable but not exactly the best solution for future proofing because the CPU is weak.
It comes back to the fact that it's £20 cheaper but a great margin better.
People using their computer for office and Web browsing don't need the APU power, so don't need to spend £20 more for a weaker cpu and slightly worse GPU. Intel has the budget upper hand there in that situation.

Trinity is mainly based around laptops though. There's desktop versions but for a long time the bread and butter has been laptops.
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post #86 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You are exaggerating your claims so much it's laughable. Are you saying that someone typing an email or some other piece of text is miraculously going to see a massive difference going from an entry AMD APU to an entry Intel one is going to see productivity shoot up drastically?

No, I'm saying it would be ridiculous to purchase the APU in the first place since it's more expensive and the GPU power isn't needed.

Why would they spend £20 MORE on a CPU that performs worse when the aim is to save money? This is offices, businesses and home users with zero interest in gaming, remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I know many universities that still use P4's simply because nobody cares about CPU performance and those CPU's were super cheap. They run some form of Linux and possibly couldn't care less about PC performance. Are you seriously saying they would be better off with an Intel CPU when they don't even use the performance these APU's offer?

Eh, my University has i5's in every single suite. They've just polled us on Facebook to find out which rooms should be upgraded to i7's. Then again, I am in the School of Computing so it makes sense they'd have massive number crunching CPU's. We have two rooms with Ubuntu Linux (out of around 14 rooms across 3 floors) and one Mac Lab.

You're stuck on this notion that I'm saying "this Intel CPU" when you're just plain wrong. I'm saying "this particular CPU in this particular instance". For gamers on a budget there is NO QUESTION of which way to go. There are posts on this very forum with me suggesting AMD APU's to posters after gaming builds rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You use the word weak as it means anything. Do tell in which scenario of yours this CPU which costs 20 USD more would benefit an institute that would have to buy PC's by the hundreds, if not thousands.

This Celeron CPU costs £20 LESS than the APU chips. This just proves that you aren't following this discussion as much as you like to think you are. I'm going to run the numbers and prices again for your benefit.

AMD A4-3500 APU
£54
Passmark: 2122
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+A6-3500+APU

Intel Celeron G530
£31
Passmark 2,262
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G530+%40+2.40GHz

Now you tell me why an institution or business that doesn't need the extra GPU power would spend £20 more on a lower performing CPU when they're buying in bulk and aiming to save money, because 100 PC's is a saving of £2,000.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I care not how you somehow derailed this thread from discussing these embedded chips to desktop, despite having no performance numbers when it comes to either and when you do I am sure you will still rage about how much better Intel are because their CPU's are marginally 'better'. You are blinded by fanboyism, which ends this entire discussion, as by the sounds of things you are frothing at the mouth at less than 5% performance difference.

This discussion between me and you ends since you're calling me a fanboy without any kind of reason to do so. I already posted performance numbers earlier on in the thread and I even personally benchmarked the CPU's in my house (to point out how the G530 is better than an E8300... not anything to do with an AMD CPU) and you claim I'm raging? I'll be honest and say now that your post is annoying me for that fact alone and for the fact that you can't even follow the thread or get things right.

Read my last post, find the last quote wherein I say that for gaming the APU and Trinity look like the best choice "For Gaming? This ^" and then come back here and accuse me of being an Intel fanboy. IF you do that then you're a fool for trying because it wouldn't be any more true when you say it a second time.

And discussing the APU's in an APU thread isn't derailing it. Report me for this if that's what you think. I'll be happy to let the moderators decide.
Edited by Rubers - 5/12/12 at 6:20am
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post #87 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Intel Celeron G530 @ 2.4GHz
My Passmark: 2405
Passmark Website: 2260
297
Intel Core2Duo E8300 @ 2.83Ghz
My Passmark: 1918
Passmark Website: 1989
296
Intel Core2Quad Q8200 @2.33Ghz
My Passmark: 3609
Passmark Website:3276
295
Intel Core i5-2500k @ 4.5GHz (just for lols)
My Passmark: 8883
Passmark Website: 6743 @3.33Ghz
299
Seems pretty legit to me to say that the G530 is a hell of a CPU for £30.
EDIT:
BTW I have EIST enabled on all my CPU's hence the idle multipliers showing lower than stock clocks on ALL CPU's. All were run at stock except for my machine (i5) which I cba to take off my overclock.

Oh you mean these benchmarks? You're basing your entire argument on passmark?

I have an E8400. two 955's at different speeds and an M320 which runs mostly between 800 and 1400 MHz (I have mentioned this before). I notice no difference between any of them. You can twist and turn as you want, you pay for the GPU one way or another, whether it's on the CPU or motherboard.

Why are you comparing these APU's for productivity with an Intel CPU that's in a different category? Why don't you compare an Athlon CPU with this much cheaper Intel CPU of yours? As I said, you will still claim Intel's CPU's are 'better' simply because they fare better in synthetic benchmarks.

I did call you a fanboy because this is a discussion about embedded systems, not laptop or desktop APU's, and yet you desperately try to prove that Intel CPU's are better, which is not only irrelevant to this discussion but irrelevant full stop. Those who buy CPU's en masse for productivity do not buy APU's, they buy cheap dual cores with the crappiest on board GPU they can get from Dell or HP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Eh, my University has i5's in every single suite. They've just polled us on Facebook to find out which rooms should be upgraded to i7's. Then again, I am in the School of Computing so it makes sense they'd have massive number crunching CPU's. We have two rooms with Ubuntu Linux (out of around 14 rooms across 3 floors) and one Mac Lab.

What did your institute have before these i5's and for how long? When those institutes or corporations with P4's upgrade their systems your i5's will be put to shame.
Edited by Liranan - 5/12/12 at 6:59am
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post #88 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Oh you mean these benchmarks? You're basing your entire argument on passmark?

Oh because benchmarks mean nothing. rolleyes.gif They're a general representation of the performance you can expect to see and it's something we on Overclock.net use often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I have an E8400. two 955's at different speeds and an M320 which runs mostly between 800 and 1400 MHz (I have mentioned this before). I notice no difference between any of them. You can twist and turn as you want, you pay for the GPU one way or another, whether it's on the CPU or motherboard.

Right so thanks for proving my point for me. There's no noticeable difference in real world tasks so why would someone pay £20 more for the A series? or an Athlon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Why are you comparing these APU's for productivity with an Intel CPU that's in a different category? Why don't you compare an Athlon CPU with this much cheaper Intel CPU of yours? As I said, you will still claim Intel's CPU's are 'better' simply because they fare better in synthetic benchmarks.

They're in the same price range and that's all that matters, you don't get to pick and choose how you compare two similarly priced chips thumb.gif

But yeah ok, let's compare the Athlon chips.

AMD Athlon II x2 250
£46
Passmark: 1,703
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+X2+250

AMD Athlon II 160u
£19
Passmark: 554
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+160u

Intel Celeron G530
£31
Passmark: 2,267
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G530+%40+2.40GHz

Cheaper, performs better and therefore a better choice in the right circumstances. AFAICT the Athlon II x2 250 would be a slightly better chip to use in gaming over the G530, but then of course if gaming was your intentions you'd want to grab the similarly priced A6-3500 APU for the budget gaming build.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I did call you a fanboy because this is a discussion about embedded systems, not laptop or desktop APU's, and yet you desperately try to prove that Intel CPU's are better, which is not only irrelevant to this discussion but irrelevant full stop. Those who buy CPU's en masse for productivity do not buy APU's, they buy cheap dual cores with the crappiest on board GPU they can get from Dell or HP.

I'm not desperately trying to prove anything rolleyes.gif

This thread is about laptop A Series APU's vs Intel ones. At some point in the discussion someone mentioned that AMD are still good for the budget builds. I said "for gaming yeah but otherwise, actually, Intel still have a valid claim" and then a discussion ensued. smile.gif

My whole point of discussion is that Intel still have a viable place in the desktop budget builds. My only reason for posting as such is because I was genuinely shocked at the performance from this £30 CPU. I was lining up an APU for a system for my GF in her office because I was budget conscious. I priced up two systems and it was £40 cheaper to use a P67 B1 board I had laying around (the cost of a H61 board/A75 board, and we didn't need more than 1 HDD in there to the P67 was usable) so I went for that thinking there would be a performance loss and I was wrong. Now looking at benchmarks and other synthetics it appears that I would have lost performance getting an APU and gained useless GPU performance that she would never have used (we're using an 8500GT that I had laying around also owing to the P67 board not having video support). She runs excel to keep a track of her business expenditure and has fairly large sheets running which the SandyBridge chips fare rather well in mathematics. For someone who's not overclocking or playing games it's brilliant. I'm not preaching Intel I'm preaching this specific chip! To make this point there's a Celeron G440 that is MORE expensive and way worse in performance (lower clock and single core).

You may take your fanboy claims and just leave. thumb.gif
Edited by Rubers - 5/12/12 at 7:24am
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post #89 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Oh because benchmarks mean nothing. rolleyes.gif They're a general representation of the performance you can expect to see and it's something we on Overclock.net use often.
Right so thanks for proving my point for me. There's no noticeable difference in real world tasks so why would someone pay £20 more for the A series? or an Athlon?
They're in the same price range and that's all that matters, you don't get to pick and choose how you compare two similarly priced chips thumb.gif
But yeah ok, let's compare the Athlon chips.
AMD Athlon II x2 250
£46
Passmark: 1,703
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+X2+250
AMD Athlon II 160u
£19
Passmark: 554
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+160u
Intel Celeron G530
£31
Passmark: 2,267
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G530+%40+2.40GHz
Cheaper, performs better and therefore a better choice in the right circumstances. AFAICT the Athlon II x2 250 would be a slightly better chip to use in gaming over the G530, but then of course if gaming was your intentions you'd want to grab the similarly priced A6-3500 APU for the budget gaming build.
I'm not desperately trying to prove anything rolleyes.gif
This thread is about laptop A Series APU's vs Intel ones. At some point in the discussion someone mentioned that AMD are still good for the budget builds. I said "for gaming yeah but otherwise, actually, Intel still have a valid claim" and then a discussion ensued. smile.gif
My whole point of discussion is that Intel still have a viable place in the desktop budget builds. My only reason for posting as such is because I was genuinely shocked at the performance from this £30 CPU. I was lining up an APU for a system for my GF in her office because I was budget conscious. I priced up two systems and it was £40 cheaper to use a P67 B1 board I had laying around (and we didn't need more than 1 HDD in there) so I went for that thinking there would be a performance loss and I was wrong. Now looking at benchmarks and other synthetics it appears that I would have lost performance getting an APU and gained useless GPU performance that she would never have used (we're using an 8500GT that I had laying around also owing to the P67 board not having video support). She runs excel to keep a track of her business expenditure and has fairly large sheets running which the SandyBridge chips fare rather well in mathematics. For someone who's not overclocking or playing games it's brilliant. I'm not preaching Intel I'm preaching this chip!
You may take your fanboy claims and just leave. thumb.gif

You're so shocked you have to bring in a desktop CPU into an embedded APU discussion to prove your point? I'll admit those cheap CPU's are superb but who cares, they're not even in the same price category or even in the same league? If there is a discussion at all about laptops it's entirely the wrong place, the title of the thread should have made that clear.

But you're right, I'll go recommend where I work we upgrade hundreds of PC's to i7's based on passmark, despite everyone only typing a document and an email or two, and making basic PPT's, especially as you said there's no difference between a 31 and 19 quid CPU doh.gif

This circle we're going round is giving me a headache, have fun proving a non-point.
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post #90 of 106
It shouldn't surprise me how far people will go off topic just to fly their little Intel flag. Somehow, it still does.

Doesn't anyone here still have good, generalized, unbiased opinions about anything?

A lot of the comments in this thread are about as irrelevant to the topic as the 0-60 speed of a new Camaro would be to the payload of a work truck in the same model year. rolleyes.gif
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Lounge Machine
(17 items)
 
Doc Wallace
(14 items)
 
Cap'n Crunch
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5-2500K @ 4.70 GHz Asus P8P67 Pro XFX Double D R9 280 [1200/1600] 8GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-2133 [9-11-10-28] 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Mushkin Chronos 120GB SATA3 Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB Asus DRW-24B1ST XSPC Rasa 750 RS240 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro x64 Asus VH236H Rosewill RK-7300 Rosewill RX750-S-B 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Lancool PC-K62 Logitech Mx518 Realtek HD 192KHz Visiontek Killer 2100 NIC 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.80 GHz ASRock 770iCafe AM3+ EVGA Geforce GTX 460 1GB 8GB G.Skill Sniper 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Nova 30GB WD Caviar Blue 640GB Lite-On DVDRW Corsair H50 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 Pro x64 Asus VH236H Corsair CX430 Diablotek EVO RPA-6170 
Mouse
Logitech LX3 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon 3060 @ 3.6GHz MSI P35 Platinum EVGA Geforce GTS 250 512MB 2GB OCZ Fatal1ty + 2GB ADATA Premier DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung HD161HJ DVDRW Xigmatek Dark Knight Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Compaq S1922A Cheifmax 650W Raidmax Smilodon EB Logitech LX3 
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