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7950 or gtx 670? - Page 13

post #121 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

I think that's a little harsh, but ... funny. The 7950 sample didn't seem to be a very good OC'er ... here's the clocks they used:
Quote:
For the GeForce GTX 670 we found the highest stable overclock to be 1234MHz core frequency and 6.4GHz memory.
For the AMD Radeon HD 7950 we found the highest stable overclock to be 1050MHz and 6GHz memory.
Although their 670 isn't the greatest either, I suspect its a lot closer to 'average' 670 OC's in terms of % delta than their 7950 sample was. Still, the 7950 OC gets dominated pretty hard in nearly every test vs. the OC'd 670.

I'm going to go through and add 10.64% to the 7950's results and see what i get. That would be like overclocking the card an additional 14% to 1,200c since as roughly estimated earlier in this post, you see a .76% increase in fps for every 1% increase in speed. 1200c is a very good overclock for a 7950, pretty much the very top end. Keep in mind the 670 is at a fairly low OC too though, about 5% less than a high-average.


BF3:
670: 58.1
7950: 54.7 = ~60.5 at 1200c

Batman
670: 49.7
7950: 46.3 = ~51.2 at 1200c

Skyrim:
670: 74.5
7950: 66.4 = ~73.4 at 1200c

Deus Ex:
670: 67.4
7950: 69.6 = ~77 at 1200c

Averages:
670: 62.4
7950: 65.5 at 1200c
This means the 7950 at 1200c is 5% faster on average compared to the 670 at 1234c.
Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Actually, after seeing this i should just calculate the break even point and be done with it. The 7950 MUST be over ~1123MHz core to beat a 1234MHz boosted 670. So if I standardize this, then you see that a 7950 must be within 9% of a 670 for equal performance. So for a 7950 to be dead-even with a 670 at 1300MHz then it must be 1183MHz or higher.

To simplify this, just take your max 7950 core speed and multiply it by 1.09 and that is what a 670 needs to run at for nearly the same performance
Or, take your max 670 core speed and multiply it by .91 and that is what the 7950 needs to run at for nearly the same performance.

Edit: Just noticed too, that when you compare their 7970 at 1260mhz to my simulated 7950 at 1200c my numbers are about ~7.5% below the 7970 which, based on other reviews that compared the 7970 to the 7950, seems correct.
Edited by SeanPoe - 5/14/12 at 6:25pm
post #122 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

with a crappy 965 the bottleneck is high as hell xd

You do realize a "crappy" 965 can OC to 5 GHz

@SeanPoe - Have you been on this thread all day? I was here when there was like 5 post.. I come back and there is 120 post.. and your still here.. lol

So what is the best GPU for OCing then? I hear the MSI 7970 Lightning.
Edited by NinjaSushi2 - 5/14/12 at 6:43pm
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post #123 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSushi2 View Post

You do realize a "crappy" 965 can OC to 5 GHz

If you have some ln2 to spare dont mind xd My 965 is crap because its missing 2 pins
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post #124 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

If you have some ln2 to spare dont mind xd My 965 is crap because its missing 2 pins

Here's my buddy's 955. Imagine your 965..

375
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post #125 of 237
post #126 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSushi2 View Post

Here's my buddy's 955. Imagine your 965..
375

Pls i am using amd's product from 98. I know that a 965 can reach 5ghz. With LN2 only tho. So if you find ln2 with 4 euro in greece i will eat your shoes. And if you read my cpu missing 2 pins it cant even run dual channel memory so dunno what you are thinking. Also 960t> all phenom. My 960t runs at 4.4 so what? I didint see any difference from 3,8 to 4.4 in performance terms
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post #127 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe View Post


670 page
7950 page
First of all, this review is comparing a non-reference 7950 with vast improvements over the reference model to a reference 670. It's not a fair match-up which will be skewed slightly in favor of the 7950 because of this. Therefore, lets just say because of this, the 7950 is at a 5% advantage here, so i will normalize the results (ie, boost the 670 by 5%) and lets see what we get.

Even accepting your argument that you want to give 1300 Mhz to GTX 670 the BF3 comparison is wrong.
670 : 58.1 avg, 36 min, normalized avg 61 2560 X 1600 FXAA
7950 : 54.2 avg, 35 min 2560 X 1600 MSAA 2X

please read before you reply. I am quite sure the 670 will at best tie the HD 7950 and at worst fall slightly behind.

Deus ex
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3

670 OC (1234) : 67.4 avg, min 33
Do you want a clue as to the clock scaling of HD 7970 / 7950 in Deux Ex

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/8

7970 OC (1280) : avg 84.9 min 44
Assuming 7970 is 5% faster than 7950 clock for clock and assuming 1175 for HD 7950 84.9 X 1175 / 1280 X 0.95 = 74 fps
7950 OC (1150) : avg 74 fps

A 10% perf diff is a clear lead. If you even think that Nvidia cards are on par in Deux Ex you are completely mistaken.

You comfortably forgot to include other games like witcher 2, metro 2033, crysis 2, alan wake in the comparison
Quote:
Power consumption when overclocked under load: (just the gpu, not total system)
670: 265w
7950: 369w

Where did these numbers come from ?

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/10/nvidia_geforce_gtx_670_video_card_review/2
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/2

You forgot to notice the test bed for the XFX HD 7950 is a power hungry 45nm core i7 920 (3.6 Ghz OC) with an extremely power hungry X58 chipset (triple channel memory) based motherboard. The GTX 670 runs on a 32 nm 2600k (4.8 Ghz) with a much less power consuming P67 chipset based motherboard. So direct comparisons will not be accurate.

I can accept the GTX 670 is more power efficient but that efficiency comes at the cost of running the risk of being bandwidth constrained in games like Metro 2033 and more so in the future. I wouldn't even hesitate for a second to buy the HD 7950 given its going to be less affected by bandwidth constraints and well worth the extra power cost.

Metro 2033 (DOF with AAA) at 1080p

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/10
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/16

HD 7950 OC (1150 ) - 50
GTX 670 OC (1050 base / 1137 boost) - 39

Note this is a game where the GTX 580 defeats the HD 6970 clearly and the GTX 600 series scale less than 20% wrt GTX 580. This is how bad it can be when GTX 680 / 670 cards are bandwidth constrained .
Quote:
Hard Reset:
670 : 52, 88
7950 : 39, 65 = normalized 46, 77

Hard reset is a win for GTX 670. no doubt about that . Games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , FarCry 2 are doing such high fps that the comparison is so inconsequential. How much are you going to able to tell any playability differences at 80 fps compared to 90 fps or 120 fps compared to 130 fps. Compare that to metro 2033 where there is a 10 fps diff (25%) and Crysis 2 at 2560 X 1600 where there is a 3 fps diff (7.5%). Anno 2070 will run clearly better on HD 7950 OC maxed out compared to GTX 670 OC

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/14
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/17

at 1080 p and 1600p

HD 7950 (800 ) - 67    45
HD 7950 (1020) - 85    56
HD 7950 (1150) - 93    62
GTX 670 - 75    48
GTX 670 (1058 / 1137 boost) - 85    54

At similar clocks its a no contest. even if you compare a HD 7950 (1020 ) to a GTX 670 (1137), HD 7950 comes ahead. Also this is not at max settings. At max settings HD 7900 series will mop the floor against GTX 600 when al cards are OC'd.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-10/benchmark-anno-2070.html

Quote:
Looks like Guru3D did a very good job with these overclocks. Both of these cards seem to be at their max average overclock, because of this, I will not need to normalize any of this data. It's unfortunate though that they only included two games here, especially with both of them being games that heavily favor AMD drivers (crysis 2 and alien vs predator). I'm not sure why guru3d would pick only these two games, they should have at least picked a game that favors Nivida drivers too (like batman or battlefield 3) to make things fair.

Crysis 2 is a game where Nvidia traditionally excelled. its a TWIMTBP title. the GTX 500 series crushed the HD 6000 series.The HD 7000 series have improved because of major improvements in tesselation performance in HD 7900 series and huge bandwidth which lets them scale better with OCing. for an idea of perf scaling with memory OC

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680_13.html#sect1

2560 x 1600 utra 4xaa
HD 7970 (1150 core / 7000 memory ) - 49
GTX 680 (1186 core / 1267 boost / 7186 memory) - 40

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7970-overclock-guide/16
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-680-asus-directcu-ii-top-review/21

BF3 2560 X 1600 Ultra 4X MSAA
HD 7970 (1125) - 38
ASUS GTX 680 TOP (1137 core / 1267 boost) - 40

Here is how I look at it. clock for clock HD 7900 series will tie GTX 600 in BF3. At 1080p GTX 680 will have slight edge . At 1600p HD 7970 will be slightly ahead . Which is what I told you from hardocp numbers.

You haven't accounted for games where Nvidia gets hammered like Metro 2033, Alan Wake (all demanding games where the performance difference makes playablility difference). smile.gif

My opinion is very clear. If you want perf/watt you can go for GTX 670 for all other cases get a good card like Sapphire HD 7950 OC, push your card to the max with voltage OC and enjoy max performance across a wide range of games. Also you will have invested on a more future proof card which won't be bandwidth constrained in games.

hardocp's test suite is limited to 4 games (BF3, Batman AC, Skyrim, Deus Ex) which I feel is not enough to make a really good comparison. Ideally 8 - 10 games released in the last 12 - 18 months is the best way. When we add more games like Witcher 2 , Alan Wake, Crysis 2 it will make things more favourable for HD 7950 OC wrt GTX 670 OC. Anyway thats just my opinion. I look at the most recent and the most demanding games. If you have a different line of thinking thats fine. smile.gif
Edited by raghu78 - 5/14/12 at 8:54pm
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post #128 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Even accepting your argument that you want to give 1300 Mhz to GTX 670 the BF3 comparison is wrong.
670 : 58.1 avg, 36 min, normalized avg 61 2560 X 1600 FXAA
7950 : 54.2 avg, 35 min 2560 X 1600 MSAA 2x
please read before you reply. I am quite sure the 670 will at best tie the HD 7950 and at worst fall slightly behind.

I have no idea what you mean about '1300Mhz to the 670'. I never once mentioned anything even related to that. I said i was going to give a 5% bump to the 670 because it was a reference model being compared to a non-reference with improved cooling and better PCB components. From my experience, and from pretty much every review I've seen (at least with non-faulty non-reference models), a non-reference card of the same make will overclock/perform 5% better. Here's one such example of how a non-reference card beats a reference card by 7% additional fps. A 5% increase seems perfectly reasonable here.

I defended my position regarding that slight difference with 2xMSAA here and again here when the driver difference was brought into question. However, since i made this post today, HardOCP released a new review which tested both games at the exact same settings here. Lets look at those numbers shall we, as now there's more data available than when i originally wrote this:

BF3:
670: 58.1
7950: 54.7 -- what do you know, it's almost the same as above despite the newer driver and the fact that 2xMSAA is off. Guess my two assumption in the two links above were correct after all?

So you see it makes no difference. wink.gif

Quote:
Deus ex
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3
670 OC (1234) : 67.4 avg, min 33
Do you want a clue as to the clock scaling of HD 7970 / 7950 in Deux Ex

Yes, it says right in the introduction of that review, "AMD's reference Radeon HD 7950 core clock speeds are 800MHz, and XFX took it upon themselves to increase this to 900MHz without the user needing to change anything. "
So, 900/800 = 12.% overclock. This is why i said, i will "increase the performance of the 670 by 12% (5% for being a reference model, 7% for being 11% underclocked compared to the 7950)." You see i only bumped it up 7% for that 12% overclock because i know 670's have lower scaling then a 7950. That 7% number is actually too low given that the 7950 only scales 10% better than a 670 (so i should have technically used 10.8%) , but i wanted to be generous towards the 7950.

As for the "670 OC (1234) : 67.4 avg, min 33" that data was not available when i wrote this. Look at the time stamps, i wrote this 4 hours before HardOCP put that article up. If that info was available earlier, than i wouldn't have wasted 2 hours writing this comparison. But now that it is available, we can talk about i guess thumb.gif (but don't try to use it as evidence disproving the original data HardOCP had available to me that i had to extrapolate on). Skip down to after the next quote, i'll talk about this there.

Quote:
670 OC (1234) : 67.4 avg, min 33
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/8
7970 OC (1280) : avg 84.9 min 44
Assuming 7970 is 5% faster than 7950 clock for clock and assuming 1175 for HD 7950 84.9 X 1175 / 1280 X 0.95 = 74 fps
7950 OC (1150) : avg 74 fps
A 10% perf diff is a clear lead. If you even think that Nvidia cards are on par in Deux Ex you are completely mistaken.

Yes i will agree that a 7970 is about 5%-8% faster than a 7950, i will show you why. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
If you take the 7950's core clock of 1150 you will need to increase it by 11.3% to get the 7970's core clock of 1280. Since the 7950 only gains .76% fps for every 1% increase in core speed (shown here), then you take 11.3% and multiply it by .76% which equals 8.5%. So take the 7950's original 74fps and multiply it by 8.5% (1.085) which comes out to 80.3fps. That is what the 7950 would have scored if it was at 1280MHz core. Now take the 7970's fps of 84.9 and divide it by the 7950's new fps of 80.3 and we get a percent difference of 5.7%. Okay but what was the point of all that? I still don't understand your point.

Anyways, now onto the new data you're talking about that i DIDN'T have when i wrote my original post. First thing i notice is how damn close i was of estimating the 670's overclock potential in that game in my original post. I calculated from a stock reference model that it would hit 65.9fps and it ended up being 67.4. That's pretty good if you ask me given the data i had to work with. But that's not relevant now given the new data set, lets look at just that one now:

Deus ex:
670: 67.4
7950: 69.6

Oh, i already went into this in this post. I don't know how far you read in this thread before you posted, but it's usually a good idea to read everything tongue.gif. I specifically say i don't think the 1050c overclock on the 7950 is fair and that it should be boosted up to 1200c equivalent. This is what i ended up with in that post for quick reference:

Deus Ex:
670: 67.4
7950: 69.6 = ~77 at 1200c

Like i said at the top of my original post. I have no biases, as this clearly proves it. i boosted the 7950 up when it deserved it for the comparison to be fair. I'm in complete agreement that the 7950 kills on Dues EX given this new information, but my original guess/estimate wasn't far off. i said they would be about even in this game when comparing them at low overclocks (7950 at 900mhz vs the 670 at about 940mhz). Given the fact that the 7950 scales 10% better with an overclock (like i showed above), it's not surprising at a higher overclock like this that we find them about 10% apart.

Quote:
You comfortably forgot to include other games like witcher 2, metro 2033, crysis 2, alan wake in the comparison
I didn't forget, metro 2033 and crysis 2 are down below in my post in the Guru3d section. As for the other games, i would love to compare them but i didn't have the necessary data to compare them fairly. If you have some benchmarks for those games for each card then feel free to post a link and i will look over it. smile.gif
Quote:
Where did these numbers come from ?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/10/nvidia_geforce_gtx_670_video_card_review/2
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/2
You forgot to notice the test bed for the XFX HD 7950 is a power hungry 45nm core i7 920 (3.6 Ghz OC) with an extremely power hungry X58 chipset (triple channel memory) based motherboard. The GTX 670 runs on a 32 nm 2600k (4.8 Ghz) with a much less power consuming P67 chipset based motherboard. So direct comparisons will not be accurate.
I can accept the GTX 670 is more power efficient but that efficiency comes at the cost of running the risk of being bandwidth constrained in games like Metro 2033 and more so in the future. I wouldn't even hesitate for a second to buy the HD 7950 given its going to be less affected by bandwidth constraints and well worth the extra power cost.

The numbers came from the power consumption page. I guess you didn't notice they listed the system power consumption too so you could subtract it and find out just the cards power consumption? I didn't forget the 7950 was on a more power hungry system, but that doesn't change anything because i subtracted their consumption. At the top of the graph it says, "Total System Wattage - Without Video Card = 160w." So i took the 529W value and subtracted the 160W value which comes out to 369W for JUST the GPU. I did the same for the 670 and it comes out to 265W. Now take 369w and subtract 265W and we get our power consumption difference of 104W or 28% percent difference (265/369 = .72, now take the inverse of that and convert to a percent = 28%). The power consumption difference comes out to $28.47 per year. it's not huge, but it's certainly relevant and should be part of the decision. This drops the price of the 670 to $372 after the first year when compared to the 7950.

Quote:
Metro 2033 (DOF with AAA) at 1080p
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/10
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/16
HD 7950 OC (1150 ) - 50
GTX 670 OC (1050 base / 1137 boost) - 39
Note this is a game where the GTX 580 defeats the HD 6970 clearly and the GTX 600 series scale less than 20% wrt GTX 580. This is how bad it can be when GTX 680 / 670 cards are bandwidth constrained .

First off, the 7950 is being scaled too high. I said i thought i was scaling it up too much and later on after that new HardOCP review came out today i can easily confirm that now. I was WAY too generous with the numbers here in favor of the 7950. I'm a little disappointed that you pointed out the 7950 was not overclocked enough in the Deus ex example above (and i was in agreement with you even before you posted this) but you don't have a problem with the 670 being too low here? This clearly shows some small degree of bias (or maybe you just overlooked it, i hope it's the later thumb.gif). Given what i now know, i wouldn't have given the 7950 a 19% boost here, but instead maybe only a 12% boost. So instead of 50fps it should have been around 46fps. So 46fps for the 7950 and 39fps for the 670, or a 18% difference for metro.

Bandwidth has nothing to do with anything here. NVidia has always struggled with Metro because the game just isn't optimized well and NVidia could never get good drivers for it. I have no idea what your gtx 580 example compared to a 6970 has to do with anything. Care to elaborate? Either way, this info has no weight as it doesn't change our measured FPS values. NVidia just sucks at Metro and it always has.
Quote:
Hard reset is a win for GTX 670. no doubt about that
I don't know what you keep talking about winning or losing. Winning or losing at a certain game is not the point of this exercise. The point is to find the average fps in ALL games so we can use that info tp generalize how good each card is in ANY game now or in the future.
Quote:
Games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, FarCry 2 are doing such high fps that the comparison is so inconsequential. How much are you going to able to tell any playability differences at 80 fps compared to 90 fps or 120 fps compared to 130 fps.
There's no such thing as inconsequential numbers in a benchmark. This data is being used, like i just said above, to find the general strength of the card in ANY game by extrapolating all of our data. But just for the sake of answering your question, there is a big difference between 90fps and 120fps for someone with a 120hz monitor (like myself). I can easily tell the difference both visually and by the feel of the game.
Quote:
Compare that to metro 2033 where there is a 10 fps diff (25%) and Crysis 2 at 2560 X 1600 where there is a 3 fps diff (7.5%). Anno 2070 will run clearly better on HD 7950 OC maxed out compared to GTX 670 OC
Yes, some games run better on AMD than NVidia. It has really nothing to do with the cards themselves but with the drivers. I don't even know why you're so hung up on which games each card does better at. The only time this is of concern is if you ONLY care about performance in a specific game because that's all you play. We're trying to draw a broad conclusion on which card is generally better in all games.
Quote:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/14
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/17
1080P 1600P
HD 7950 (800 ) - 67 45
HD 7950 (1020) - 85 56
HD 7950 (1150) - 93 62
GTX 670 - 75 48
GTX 670 (1058 / 1137 boost) - 85 54
At similar clocks its a no contest. even if you compare a HD 7950 (1020 ) to a GTX 670 (1137), HD 7950 comes ahead. Also this is not at max settings. At max settings HD 7900 series will mop the floor against GTX 600 when al cards are OC'd.

That 670 link is to a weak factory overclocked 670. Again, your confirmation bias is clearly coming to light as you have no problem comparing a light factory-oc'ed 670 to a heavy manually overclocked 7950 but when it was the reverse you had a problem with that (and for the record, so did i, proving that i'm being impartial to the data).

So given this data, the 7950 is a reference model and the 670 is a non-reference model, that means i'm going to give the 7950 a free 5% bump (like i did for the 670 earlier when it was in a similar situation). Guru3D is actually using a non-reference card too, but didn't state that in the article you linked. If you look at the picture of the card with that review you linked, you can clearly see it's a HIS non-reference mode.

BUT we also need to scale the 670 up to the equivalent of a 7950 at 1150c. To do this, refer to my earlier post (skip to the bottom where i talk about simplify things). So take 1150 and multiply it by 1.09, this gives us 1253, which is the core frequency that the 670 needs to run at to match a 7950 at 1150. This is a VERY easy OC to achieve, as the 670 is averaging well over 1275 on these forums. So we take 1253 and divide by 1137 which gives us the percent difference, which is 10%. Then we take the scaling factor (found here) which is .69% increase in fps for every 1%, so we take 10% and multiply by .69% and we get
6.9%. So now we need to boost the factory-OC numbers above by 6.9% so we get:

Anno:
670: 54, 85 ---> 58, 91 at 1253c
7950: 62, 93 at 1150c

So, you can see it's a 7% and 2% difference respectively in favor of the 7950, just like we saw in my earlier extrapolation when i gave the 7950 a 19% additional boost:

Original Anno numbers:
Anno 2070
670: 54, 85
7950: 48, 74 = normalized 57, 88
This is a 6% and 4% difference. Almost spot on to the above numbers.
Quote:
Crysis 2 is a game where Nvidia traditionally excelled. its a TWIMTBP title. the GTX 500 series crushed the HD 6000 series.The HD 7000 series have improved because of major improvements in tesselation performance in HD 7900 series and huge bandwidth which lets them scale better with OCing.

Who cares what it was in the past, we're comparing this generation of cards and right now AMD has an advantage in crysis 2. This doesn't even mater though, as NVidia and AMD trade blows pretty evenly in games based on drivers. The only reason i pointed it out is because Guru3D decided to ONLY include this one game which favors AMD cards which i thought was biased and unfair. They should have included some neutral games or one game that each card excels at (like Batman + Crysis 2, or Skyrim + BF3).
Quote:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7970-overclock-guide/16
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-680-asus-directcu-ii-top-review/21
BF3 2560 X 1600 Ultra 4X MSAA
HD 7970 (1125) - 38
ASUS GTX 680 TOP (1137 core / 1267 boost) - 40
Here is how I look at it. clock for clock HD 7900 series will tie GTX 600 in BF3. At 1080p GTX 680 will have slight edge . At 1600p HD 7970 will be slightly ahead . Which is what I told you from hardocp numbers.

The 7970 is behind here by 5.3% at 1600p and behind at 1200p too by 11%. So i'm not sure how you're drawing the conclusion that the 7970 is better at 1600p. The fact of the mater is, resolution has very little to do with it at 1600p and 1200p. If a game performs better on the 7950 at 1200p then it will almost ALWAYS perform better at 1600p too. The reverse is true for NVidia, if the 670 performs better at 1200p then it will most likely always perform better at 1600p too. This is because it's almost entirely dictated by drivers, if one card is better at a game because of drivers, then it will be better at almost any resolution (especially when you're below 1600p).
Quote:
You haven't accounted for games where Nvidia gets hammered like Metro 2033, Alan Wake (all demanding games where the performance difference makes playablility difference). smile.gif
Yes i have, that's why i included every single game in the test set so i can get a good idea of how each card will averagely perform in any game when compared to its counterpart. There's a lot of games NVidia is better at too, actually, it's probably more games than AMD to be honest and that's really the only reason the 670 comes ahead by ~5% when you average everything up. Both cards are about equal in their actual brute strength, they're just being limited by drivers or other game related factors which accounts for this small differential.
Quote:
hardocp's test suite is limited to 4 games (BF3, Batman AC, Skyrim, Deus Ex) which I feel is not enough to make a really good comparison. Ideally 8 - 10 games released in the last 12 - 18 months is the best way. When we add more games like Witcher 2 , Alan Wake, Crysis 2 it will make things more favourable for HD 7950 OC wrt GTX 670 OC. Anyway thats just my opinion. I look at the most recent and the most demanding games.

Where is your evidence that proves that the 7950 is better in these so called more demanding games? From what i've seen they're pretty even. Feel free to post benchmarks so we can compare though thumb.gif
Quote:
My opinion is very clear. If you want perf/watt you can go for GTX 670 for all other cases get a good card like Sapphire HD 7950 OC, push your card to the max with voltage OC and enjoy max performance across a wide range of games. Also you will have invested on a more future proof card which won't be bandwidth constrained in games.

The data is pretty clear, both cards are about even (within 2-3% at max overclock at 1600p, slightly in favor of 670), so i don't know how you can conclusively say the 7950 is a better overclocker and performs better across a wide range of games. The fact that that 670 is ahead by 2-3% is evidence that it's slightly better over a wider range of games. There's also no evidence to suggest that the 7970 is more future proof. At 1600p or less the extra 1gb of VRAM will really not have any real-world and measurable impact. Especially considering how we're stuck in the era of weak console ports for the next ~2 years. I also don't know where this 'bandwidth constrained' concept came from, but there's no evidence currently to suggest that the 670 is constrained. There's also no evidence proving that games in the future will be able to make the 670 bandwidth constrained. I welcome you to present the evidence if it does exist, but i haven't seen any tongue.gif

But with that all being said, lets just assume the 670 and 7950 are completely even in terms of average game fps. The 670 is better on every other front. It's audibly quieter by ~96%, it runs cooler (ie, it produced less heat, i'm not talking about its core temps) so it will heat up a room less, it uses less power which saves ~$30 per year., it works with SLI better so that opens up some more viable upgrade routes (though i'm confident AMD will eventually get CF straightened out before it's time to think about a second card), and it has slightly less micro-stuttering and dynamic Vsync. But when you consider all that and then realize that that 670 is a hair faster too, it really becomes a no-brainer.


Enjoy the Great Wall bro thumb.gif

Edit: Now that Brett has posted his info, we know the scaling for the 670 is 81% not 69% like i used to calculate various things in this post. So that means most of my extrapolated data for the 670 is about 12% less than it should be. So keep that in mind before i get a chance to fix this post sometime tomorrow.
Edited by SeanPoe - 5/15/12 at 2:51am
post #129 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by plum View Post

don't the 7000 series suffer greatly from MSAA? i doubt anyone is gonna be running MSAA 4x at 5760x1200 because it is still too much to handle even for SLI/CF
> 7950 or gtx 670
amd fanboys wink.gif

calling me Fanboys? lmao~~~
my first computer it's Nvidia, all the way till GTX 580. never own AMD or ATI product.
but this time, when HD7970 came out on Jan ,9 n all the result reviews compare to GTX 580 same price more Vram.
why the hell should i buy GTX 580 ? give me a god damn reason.
as when GTX 680 came out, it came out 3 god damn months late, n a few fps more for just a few games, and that was just for stock vs stock, my HD 7970 clock at 1295/1825.
also, i use my computer for lots of computing works , not gaming only.
as for computing, i can swear my hd7970 can smoke ur GTX 680 miles away.
post #130 of 237
Just thought I'd share my OC scaling numbers for my new 670 with you guys. My clock isn't guaranteed rock-solid stable yet but it passes Heaven and 3dMark11 at 1350/stock memory so I thought I'd check the much maligned Kepler scaling.

You'll see there that my results across the 3dMark11 tests are showing Kepler CORE OC scaling at about 80% WITHOUT any memory OC at all.

Turns out when you do the calculations properly, the scaling is actually quite impressive. Fermi-like, even.

BTW, 7950 owners should feel free to post their results to my thread there with matching-settings benchmarks. My 670's aren't done but there's 680 benches up there that someone else posted.

BTW, I ran Heaven for about 20 minutes at 1350MHz, and the fans on the card never became audible, the card never broke 64C, and this is in a case that's VERY quiet other than the GPU's. Just thought I'd share thumb.gif
Edited by brettjv - 5/15/12 at 1:24am
    
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
xeon X5675 6-core @ 4.1ghz (1.29v, 20x205 +ht ) rampage iii extreme msi rx470 gaming X (the $159 budget king) 3 x 2gb corsair xms3 pc12800 (9-9-9-24-1T@1600MHz) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
hynix 250gb ssd (boot), 2tb deskstar (apps),1tb... plextor px-712sa - still the best optical drive... corsair h8o v2 aio W10 home 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
asus vw266h 25.5" (1920x1200) abs sl (enermax revolution) * single 70A rail 850w silverstone rv-03 XFi Titanium 
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