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post #131 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by visata View Post

I bought this monitor (u2412m) yesterday. After a while I noticed flickering in my peripheral view (like old CRT with 60hz). Did some research and it appeared it doesn't flicker only when brightness is set to 100 which is too bright especially if you use it in a dark.
I found some youtube videos where owners show this effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnlnbQfDb8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru474L8N15w

I pointed my smartphone on u2412m and my old Samsung 226BW. Samsung monitor doesn't have any flickering under any conditions.
I'm definitely can't use my monitor with 100 brightness. Lowering brightness (I prefer 20-30) that annoying flickering appears and it tires my eyes. I'm going to return this monitor and exchange to something else.
Is this flickering a side effect of IPS or LED technology? If I buy a more expensive monitor DELL U2410 would it solve the flickering issue? Can you recommend any other decent alternatives to u2412m?
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by visata View Post

U2410 not an option for me, it flickers too:

Quote:
Originally Posted by visata View Post

Yes, catleaps are pretty cheap compared to other monitors available on the market. I only discovered about Yamakasi yesterday.
Catleaps shouldn't flicker since they support up to 120hz refresh rate?

Rep+

You just answered my question about the U2410 I had in this thread.

A 120 Hz monitor does not guarantee that it is flicker free because the flicker comes from the driver they use to dim the backlight. You can read more about it in the thread I made.

I have a 3D capable TV (not 120 Hz though), and it does use a higher frequency PWM to dim the leds which makes it comfortable to use. The same thing with my HP Netbook, which I can use for hours.

My 20" 16:10 LG L204WT that I bought in 2007 doesn't have any flicker, even at 0 brightness, which is what I use it at.
 
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post #132 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Rep+
You just answered my question about the U2410 I had in this thread.
A 120 Hz monitor does not guarantee that it is flicker free because the flicker comes from the driver they use to dim the backlight. You can read more about it in the thread I made.
I have a 3D capable TV (not 120 Hz though), and it does use a higher frequency PWM to dim the leds which makes it comfortable to use. The same thing with my HP Netbook, which I can use for hours.
My 20" 16:10 LG L204WT that I bought in 2007 doesn't have any flicker, even at 0 brightness, which is what I use it at.

Glad my post helped you. We are in the similar situation and looking for a flicker free monitor. I owned many monitors in the past and none of them had this issue. I pmed one catleap owner and asked whether he/she experiences similar issues. When I get the reply, I could update you.

If you find any suitable monitor for you, pm me, I'm sure it'd fit me too wink.gif

PS I didn't have a chance to read everything, but here is a huge discussion about eye strain from LED backlightning:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1677617?start=345&tstart=0
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post #133 of 239
Visata, I can tell you that after having my Dual U2412M monitors set up for about 3 ½ weeks, I have experienced no noticeable flickering. I have my brightness set at 30-35. I am not at home right now so I can't test it out on different brightness levels, but neither myself nor my wife has noticed the flickering you mention. I know the flickering you are talking about and it is terribly annoying. Not calling you out by any means, but merely stating I haven't experienced the same.

(Hopefully I don't go home and notice it now that you have mentioned it tongue.gif)

Good luck to you in gettin one that doesn't provide you any problems. thumb.gif
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post #134 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by visata View Post

Glad my post helped you. We are in the similar situation and looking for a flicker free monitor. I owned many monitors in the past and none of them had this issue. I pmed one catleap owner and asked whether he/she experiences similar issues. When I get the reply, I could update you.
If you find any suitable monitor for you, pm me, I'm sure it'd fit me too wink.gif
PS I didn't have a chance to read everything, but here is a huge discussion about eye strain from LED backlightning:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1677617?start=345&tstart=0

Thanks! I'll keep you posted too! I'm amazed this hasn't been addressed sooner; this can be as much of a usability plague if done poorly as the low refresh rates of CRT monitors. I made the suggestion to include this on the The Monitor Guide - Specifications and Features Defined thread.

Thanks for the link, I think that was one of the first results that showed up when I first googled that a few years ago when I sold my LG Netbook after a month because I couldn't look at the screen. Unfortunately I forgot about this issue, thinking they had solved the problem by now when I decided to purchase my 27" LG monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfriend View Post

Visata, I can tell you that after having my Dual U2412M monitors set up for about 3 ½ weeks, I have experienced no noticeable flickering. I have my brightness set at 30-35. I am not at home right now so I can't test it out on different brightness levels, but neither myself nor my wife has noticed the flickering you mention. I know the flickering you are talking about and it is terribly annoying. Not calling you out by any means, but merely stating I haven't experienced the same.
(Hopefully I don't go home and notice it now that you have mentioned it tongue.gif)
Good luck to you in gettin one that doesn't provide you any problems. thumb.gif

You don't really have to notice for it to cause eye strain, sore eyes, headaches. It's just that the frequency is so low your nervous system can actually perceive it, even though you might not be able to tell it apart from a flicker-free monitor.

I'll make a video today of both my monitors side by side and upload to show you the effects. My phone camera in Auto mode doesn't catch any flicker from my HP Netbook or my 32" TV, but it does catch from my 27" LG monitor. If I switch to Sport mode, it catches all of them (except for the LG L204WT) flickering, but the flickering is much faster than on the 27" LG monitor, and it doesn't bother me, as I said. Above a certain threshold, most people shouldn't have problems. The trouble is, manufacturers don't say at what frequency their PWM works.
 
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post #135 of 239
if only some of these monitors have this problem cant users tweak the refresh rate themselves and fix the issue?
    
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post #136 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post

if only some of these monitors have this problem cant users tweak the refresh rate themselves and fix the issue?

It's not a matter of refresh rate, it's a matter of PWM frequency. You can't adjust that yourself unless you open the monitor and replace the driver with a better one. More expensive monitors have better PWM drivers that switch the LEDs on and off at a higher frequency.

This is not about the LCD panel itself flickering; LCD panels don't flicker; what is flickering is the backlight.
 
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post #137 of 239
visata, since white leds are actually normally blue leds covered in a yellow / orange phosphor, and blue is not actually very eye friendly, if your monitor has a bluish tint to it, you can try lowering the amount of blue in the colour temperature settings to minimize the problems you're having now. It won't solve the flicker problem, but it helps.

For example, with my monitor I have the Red at 8, Green at 7, and Blue at 0. You might want to try adjusting and see if you can get a better white, that will make things a bit better for now. I have all these settings so low so that I can use the monitor at 60% brightness, combined with contrast at 25%, Gamma set to 1 and Black Level set to High.
 
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post #138 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

visata, since white leds are actually normally blue leds covered in a yellow / orange phosphor, and blue is not actually very eye friendly, if your monitor has a bluish tint to it, you can try lowering the amount of blue in the colour temperature settings to minimize the problems you're having now. It won't solve the flicker problem, but it helps.
For example, with my monitor I have the Red at 8, Green at 7, and Blue at 0. You might want to try adjusting and see if you can get a better white, that will make things a bit better for now. I have all these settings so low so that I can use the monitor at 60% brightness, combined with contrast at 25%, Gamma set to 1 and Black Level set to High.

Thanks for a suggestion, will try this later. I currently use some ICC profile from website below, not sure what settings are there but I see bluish tint:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm
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post #139 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by visata View Post

Thanks for a suggestion, will try this later. I currently use some ICC profile from website below, not sure what settings are there but I see bluish tint:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm

The custom settings there mentions values of 98 for Red, 90 for Green, and 92 for Blue, which indicates that, as with my monitor, there is too much Blue (or too little Red, whichever way you choose to look at it. More Red than Blue gives a warmer image). Dell probably has right settings for the LCD panel itself, but then each backlight behaves in a different manner, so you need to adjust to compensate. Those are the custom settings for the monitor the user that submitted that profile owns, so you might need to make further adjustments to suit your monitor.
 
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post #140 of 239
I joined this forum just to chime in on this thread. I bought a U2412M and had the same experience that others here have had regarding flicker. The display is far too bright unless the brightness is reduced (to around 30 in my case), which produces unbearable flickering due to the PWM. I tried several other LED backlit monitors. All did the same thing. I couldn't look at the Dell for more than a minute with the brightness reduced without getting severe eyestrain, headache, vertigo, etc.

The solution I found was to buy some 1/8" #2094 "neutral density" plexiglass (cut to size), which I placed on top of the screen. This material reduces light transmission by about 50%, but reduces all visible frequencies by the same amount. The result is no color shift, just a reduction in brightness.

Using this material, I can run the U2412M at 100% brightness setting, with the actual luminosity at about 120 nits. I use a Color Munki to calibrate. I have also tried gel sheets by Lee Filters (#209) and Roscolux (#97 or 398), which also work, but are not rigid enough. You can use a calibrator to reduce the brightness (while leaving the monitor's brightness setting at 100), but this kills your contrast ratio. Using the neutral density filters keeps my contrast ratio high and the brightness down, with zero flicker.

I just want to add that IMO, LED backlit monitors with PWM have set monitor ergonomics back 20 years or more.
Edited by steadystate - 6/20/12 at 12:39pm
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