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[CW] Mozilla's hypocrisy: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it - Page 3

post #21 of 92
5/12/12 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

That's not true, Apple has a clause in their SDK that states an app isn't allowed to include its own compiler or interpretor, amongst other things, and that has nothing to do with web browsers specifically.
Windows 8 (ARM) on the other hand is an open OS and there's no reason for them not to allow FireFox on there other than to restrict users to using Internet Explorer.

This; there are lots of alternative web browsers available for iOS. If that rule is stupid or not is another issue entirely...
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post #22 of 92
5/12/12 at 11:48am
Android FTW thumb.gif
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post #23 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabj06 View Post

You mean iOS? I expect Mac OS X to have the same walled garden prison as iOS though in about 4 years.

Fixed it for you lol
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post #24 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaClownie View Post

Steelbom: By making Mozilla not use Mozilla engine to put FireFox on iOS and use the Safari kit... they're essentially BANNING MOZILLA. Let's not split hairs here, seriously. Semantics...
That's not true, Apple has a clause in their SDK that states an app isn't allowed to include its own compiler or interpretor, amongst other things, and that has nothing to do with web browsers specifically.

Windows 8 (ARM) on the other hand is an open OS and there's no reason for them not to allow FireFox on there other than to restrict users to using Internet Explorer.

Sorry guys, I seriously have to side with Steelbom and Mozilla on this one. Mozilla is not being a "hypocrite" by blocking one and not the other.
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post #25 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cayennemist View Post

Android FTW thumb.gif

Android can kiss my ass smile.gif
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post #26 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Mozilla's position is illogical, but it doesn't really matter.
What does matter, and I would like to see, is a judge presenting to Microsoft's representatives an ARM powered tablet running Windows RT and an Intel Atom powered tablet running Windows 8 and asking why they are banning companies from doing their business on one of the platforms.
This will surely make the debate a lot more interesting and will probably result in the justice department looking at Apple and asking the same question. Tablets and smartphones are getting more and more powerful, they can handle an antivirus program by now. All this "security" talk is pretentiously companies arguing they need to make these devices more secure. One of the ways to do it and supposedly not needing an antivirus is to make it as much a closed platform as it can be.
Of course this path won't last long, not only because it's anti-competitive, but also because it's ineffective. Secure systems don't exist. Users better know this rather than ignorantly believe that their devices are secure.

...except Windows 8 RT is not the same OS as Windows 8 x86. By your logic, Microsoft should be charged with explaining the difference between Unix and Windows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

This; there are lots of alternative web browsers available for iOS. If that rule is stupid or not is another issue entirely...

...which all use the same webkit wrapper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

That's not true, Apple has a clause in their SDK that states an app isn't allowed to include its own compiler or interpretor, amongst other things, and that has nothing to do with web browsers specifically.
Windows 8 (ARM) on the other hand is an open OS and there's no reason for them not to allow FireFox on there other than to restrict users to using Internet Explorer.

Windows 8 is not an open OS... It has no open source components unlike OS X. If you were allowed to develop a browser on iOS, you're restricted to using the Webkit rendering engine, the same as Safari and Chrome OS.

Whats more is that the Safari iOS browser has some JavaScript improvements that enable it to compile JS to native code, thus giving it much better performance than other webkit-based browsers. This is a blatant anti-competitive tactic on Apple's part, yet no one says anything when they arbitrarily gimp other browsers in the name of security.

Also, it does specifically ban browsers:
Quote:
“3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple’s built-in WebKit framework.”

Other browsers for iOS use the built-in WebKit libraries (like Skyfire) or do not execute any JavaScript on the device itself (like Opera Mini, which uses a proxy server). But unless Apple removes these restrictions, full browsers like Firefox are not allowed on iOS

Source

Those "other browsers" are just slower versions of Safari.
Edited by BizzareRide - 5/12/12 at 12:45pm
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post #27 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:35pm
This statement doesn't make any sense. Ultimatly, M$ and Apple are trying to control their consumers. But hey, keep buying their stuff if you're ok with it.
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post #28 of 92
5/12/12 at 12:45pm
Freakin' media at it again with ignorant and open ended articles.

Quoting from the Mozilla wiki regarding the Apple "Restrictions" on Firefox for iPad/iPhone/iPod
Quote:
iPhone/iPad/iPod
We have no plans to release the full Firefox browser for iOS. The iOS SDK agreement requires apps to use Apple's own JavaScript engine (or none at all, like Opera Mini which downloads pre-rendered pages from Opera's servers and cannot run JavaScript code in the client). Because of this, we have no supported way to distribute Firefox's rendering and JavaScript engine to iPhone users.
However, you can download Firefox Home for iPhone, an iOS app that uses Firefox Sync to deliver Firefox bookmarks, browsing history, and tabs to your iPhone or iPod Touch.

SOURCE

It's not a matter of it not being able to run, it's the fact that it can't run under the circumstances given.
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post #29 of 92
5/12/12 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

...except Windows 8 RT is not the same OS as Windows 8 x86. By your logic, Microsoft should be charged with explaining the difference between Unix and Windows.

You're not making sense. What does Unix have to do with this ? Microsoft didn't make Unix, so they don't have to explain anything.

What is the difference between both operating systems - WIndows RT and Windows 8 ? Both enable multi-tasking and both will ship in multi-purpose hardware. More interestingly, both will run on machines capable of being used with a keyboard and mouse or a touchscreen, and with an identical user interface - Metro.

Let's imagine for a second that ARM takes over the desktop, and all machines will then ship with the ARM version of Windows. Should Microsoft be allowed to make all those machines only run the code they want, and applications purchased through their own store ? Where do you draw the line ?

An Operating System should be just that, an operating system, and not a launcher for the applications made solely by the manufacturer of the OS. This is anti-competitive behaviour, any way you look at it.
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post #30 of 92
5/12/12 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmerrick View Post

This statement doesn't make any sense. Ultimatly, M$ and Apple are trying to control their consumers. But hey, keep buying their stuff if you're ok with it.

^This. I love how people complain all the time about a company doing bad things or things they don't like and yet buy it's products. We're losing freedom of choice because people just don't care or don't want to exert their power anymore and then complain about it. Honestly, I agree with Mozilla on the MS issue (if it's still as I read it that MS says you can't install another browser at all on ARM) and since I'm not familiar with the hypocrisy that Apple seems to be espousing based from the comments here I'd say Mozilla should have raised the same issue there. But maybe the reason they're speaking out now is simply because they're afraid of people becoming so apathetic that they would allow MS, Apple, and Google to completely remove Mozilla from the equation later on.
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