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[CW] Mozilla's hypocrisy: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it - Page 4

post #31 of 92
Well Apple makes and sells the whole platform the tablet, phone and the OS. Microsoft just makes the OS, then their partners in the mobile space make and sell the devices that run it. So there is a difference there. I don't know how exactly that impacts this situation if at all but I think we can all agree more openness and more competition is good for consumers.
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post #32 of 92
Mozilla are legally right, because Microsoft are a convicted monopolist, whilst I don't have a majority share in any of their markets. On both counts, I think it's a load of crap, but I'll continue to run firefox on linux, so I'm not worried. smile.gif
post #33 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You're not making sense. What does Unix have to do with this ? Microsoft didn't make Unix, so they don't have to explain anything.
What is the difference between both operating systems - WIndows RT and Windows 8 ? Both enable multi-tasking and both will ship in multi-purpose hardware. More interestingly, both will run on machines capable of being used with a keyboard and mouse or a touchscreen, and with an identical user interface - Metro.
Let's imagine for a second that ARM takes over the desktop, and all machines will then ship with the ARM version of Windows. Should Microsoft be allowed to make all those machines only run the code they want, and applications purchased through their own store ? Where do you draw the line ?
An Operating System should be just that, an operating system, and not a launcher for the applications made solely by the manufacturer of the OS. This is anti-competitive behaviour, any way you look at it.

What are YOU talking about? You do realize that was an analogy, right? Then you go on to explain features inherent in any modern OS.

The difference is ARM has no backwards compatibility with Windows x86 and its software, you can't buy WinRT separately, and you can only download applications from the app store. They have nothing in common except for the fact that they look similar. You made it seem as though explaining the differences were some monumental task.

Also, you do realize that Android is an app launcher ran on top of Linux and that you can't simply put Android on any kind of hardware and call it an Android device? Google sets

FireFox won't work on Windows RT in its current state because it uses a completely different programming model. This fact precludes any accusations of anti-compete. Its like you people are incapable of looking at whats on the surface, but pounce on any opportunity to try denounce the big bad Microsoft.


Personally, I don't care. You don't have to use Microsoft products just like you don't have to use Apple products or Google products, etc, etc.

This isn't any more anti-competitive than the way Apple limits your choices of browsers or the way Google limits your choice of browsers on its Chromebooks. In fact, its the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post

Well Apple makes and sells the whole platform the tablet, phone and the OS. Microsoft just makes the OS, then their partners in the mobile space make and sell the devices that run it. So there is a difference there. I don't know how exactly that impacts this situation if at all but I think we can all agree more openness and more competition is good for consumers.

No, Apple does not make tablets. The components are made by third-parties such as Samsung, LG, Micron, etc.

What Microsoft does differently from Apple is create a minimum hardware/software spec before they extend a license to OEMs.

Apple sets a minimum spec, but their the only OEM. There's almost no difference in their dealings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post

Freakin' media at it again with ignorant and open ended articles.
Quoting from the Mozilla wiki regarding the Apple "Restrictions" on Firefox for iPad/iPhone/iPod
Quote:
iPhone/iPad/iPod
We have no plans to release the full Firefox browser for iOS. The iOS SDK agreement requires apps to use Apple's own JavaScript engine (or none at all, like Opera Mini which downloads pre-rendered pages from Opera's servers and cannot run JavaScript code in the client). Because of this, we have no supported way to distribute Firefox's rendering and JavaScript engine to iPhone users.
However, you can download Firefox Home for iPhone, an iOS app that uses Firefox Sync to deliver Firefox bookmarks, browsing history, and tabs to your iPhone or iPod Touch.
SOURCE
It's not a matter of it not being able to run, it's the fact that it can't run under the circumstances given.

There isn't a technical reason why Apple won't let others develop a native browser for their IOS. That was the point... Every other "browser" is a skin of Safari or a slow pre-rendered web page.
Edited by BizzareRide - 5/12/12 at 4:40pm
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post #34 of 92
Funny as I use Firefox both on my iPhone and my iMac. thinking.gif

OT: Why wouldn't Microsoft want Mozilla on their OS? Undoubtedly that would make some people a bit upset.
     
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post #35 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Sorry guys, I seriously have to side with Steelbom and Mozilla on this one. Mozilla is not being a "hypocrite" by blocking one and not the other.
Do you mean they're not being hypocritical because they've got a problem with Microsoft blocking them but not Apple?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Windows 8 is not an open OS... It has no open source components unlike OS X. If you were allowed to develop a browser on iOS, you're restricted to using the Webkit rendering engine, the same as Safari and Chrome OS.
I'm not saying it's an open source OS, I'm saying it's "open" in comparison to iOS which is a closed OS or a walled garden.
Quote:
Whats more is that the Safari iOS browser has some JavaScript improvements that enable it to compile JS to native code, thus giving it much better performance than other webkit-based browsers. This is a blatant anti-competitive tactic on Apple's part, yet no one says anything when they arbitrarily gimp other browsers in the name of security.
That's true, although it's not necessarily for anti-competitive reasons. In order for the JavaScript improvements to be made, they had to allow unsigned code to run, it's possible there may be security issues with third parties using it. It's not like they gain anything from preventing users from using other browsers.
Quote:
Also, it does specifically ban browsers:
Quote:
“3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple’s built-in WebKit framework.”

Other browsers for iOS use the built-in WebKit libraries (like Skyfire) or do not execute any JavaScript on the device itself (like Opera Mini, which uses a proxy server). But unless Apple removes these restrictions, full browsers like Firefox are not allowed on iOS

Source

Those "other browsers" are just slower versions of Safari.
In a sense, yes. Where do they specifically ban browsers? I don't see anything in your quote above which excludes other browsers from being on iOS? It does limit things which browsers like FireFox require but it isn't specific to a browser, but all apps.
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post #36 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelborn 
I'm not saying it's an open source OS, I'm saying it's "open" in comparison to iOS which is a closed OS or a walled garden

Perhaps that is true from a philosophy standpoint, but legally who cares? Apple just says, "Our OS is a walled garden" so Mozilla says "Oh well that's fine. Nevermind then."

But when MS says, "we don't want this in our OS." Mozilla freaks out.
wth.gif
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post #37 of 92
iOS is only half of a real OS and apple sucks so it's no big surprise. M$, though traditionally evil (they're no apple (anymore), mind you), usually doesn't stoop to these levels. I have yet to step into the world of these "smart" phones (which oddly enough have the same stupid limits dumb phones have).
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post #38 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelborn 
I'm not saying it's an open source OS, I'm saying it's "open" in comparison to iOS which is a closed OS or a walled garden

Perhaps that is true from a philosophy standpoint, but legally who cares? Apple just says, "Our OS is a walled garden" so Mozilla says "Oh well that's fine. Nevermind then."

But when MS says, "we don't want this in our OS." Mozilla freaks out.
wth.gif
But iOS has been that way from the beginning and the things which Apple restrict don't have anything to do specifically with keeping other browsers off the App Store, but any app which utilises a compiler, etc., unlike Windows which has always allowed other browsers, and has never had such restrictions.
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post #39 of 92
Maybe MS is doing this just to stick it to Apple. If Mozilla pursues this and wins then Apple will likely have to allow not only Firefox, but I wonder if it might pave the way for things like Flash as well?
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post #40 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Maybe MS is doing this just to stick it to Apple. If Mozilla pursues this and wins then Apple will likely have to allow not only Firefox, but I wonder if it might pave the way for things like Flash as well?
Not at all. Apple's not 'denying' FireFox, it just doesn't allow any apps which use their own compilers and so on.
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