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[Video Added + Watercooling Results] Replacing the internal IHS TIM of an i7 3770K - Page 17

post #161 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakewalk_S View Post

Cyclops,
Could you please go get some sand paper, like 600-800-1000grit sand paper and sand down the edges of the IHS a little. I'm 99.9% sure that it won't do any harm to increase temperatures of the CPU, if anything, if you do it enough, you should have lower temperatures. Let me know what you think when you take it back out with the spread on the die. My prediction is the contact between the IHS and die is poor due to the IHS being too thick around the edges. Sand those down and you'll see a respectable temperature drop. Its proven on alot of Nvidia cards.
Good luck!

I second this. Sand the edges of the underside base on the IHS & the inside and top of the IHS & the base of the cooler/block. Everywhere that your MX-4 touches a surface should be shiny flat mirror polished copper for best heat transfer (except for the die - duh). The reason to sand the base of the ihs where it touches the cpu package substrate PCB is so that you have a tighter mount between IHS & die. Hopefully you scraped off all the black glue that held the IHS to the substrate, and then cleaned off both surfaces & used the thinnest possible double sided tape, even still lap all the surfaces to a mirror finish of copper.

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Edited by Jared Pace - 5/14/12 at 6:55pm
post #162 of 298
Be extremely careful if you're going to sand the edges of the IHS down. Too much pressure on the die can damage it.
post #163 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakewalk_S View Post

Cyclops,
Could you please go get some sand paper, like 600-800-1000grit sand paper and sand down the edges of the IHS a little. I'm 99.9% sure that it won't do any harm to increase temperatures of the CPU, if anything, if you do it enough, you should have lower temperatures. Let me know what you think when you take it back out with the spread on the die. My prediction is the contact between the IHS and die is poor due to the IHS being too thick around the edges. Sand those down and you'll see a respectable temperature drop. Its proven on alot of Nvidia cards.
Good luck!

Ah I would, but I've already put the bare chip under water and I'm doing testings.
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post #164 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavere View Post

That's not how it works.
Air cooler heat transfer: CPU > Metal > Air
Liq cooler heat transfer: CPU > Metal > Liquid > Metal > Air
Assuming all else is equal, the air cooler is better because there are less middlemen for transfer inefficiencies.

I know this has been replied to, however a reply to explain why it is wrong in easy terms was not provided.

As has been already posted, water is a great conductor of heat and you need to understand this first.

Next you need to understand that at the end of the day, the cooling solution that can move the most heat away from the CPU and provide the most surface area to cool that moved heat will ultimately keep the CPU cooler.

The problems with an aircooled heatsink is threefold:
  1. The are limited in how much heat they can move to the fins of the heatsink due to limited surface area
  2. They have to fit into a limited space and as such the heatsinks have limited surface area available to cool the moved heat
  3. As the heatsink's cooling fins are in close proximity to the heatsinks block and enclosed in a confined space with other heat sources, radiant heat is transferred into the heatsink's cooling fins as well and you end up with heatsoak, which reduces the heatsink's ability to lower the CPU's temperature

The reason why watercooling is the better solution for keep the CPU temps low, is because they deal with the above three points head on:
  1. The only real limit to watercooling is how big a radiator you want to use and can install - the bigger, the more surface area available.
  2. Fitment issue is a non issue, as there are ways you can install watercooling into almost any PC. The only real limit in this regard is aesthetics wink.gif
  3. Apart from the waterblock and slight heat introduced from some pumps used in watercooling, there is very minimal heatsoak or impact from other heat sources in the PC

So in easy to understand terms, watercooling is a better option to remove heat because:
  1. it offers a much larger surface area to remove more heat from the CPU then an aircooled directly mounted heatsink provides and so can remove more heat from the CPU
  2. it can be used on all PCs and is only limited in fitment and size by aesthetics
  3. there is very minimal heat impact from other heat sources in your case


smile.gif
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post #165 of 298
But for Cyclops, "under water" just means "using H50" heh.
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post #166 of 298
5C temperature difference.. damn Intel, make a revision fast and then you'll get my money!
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post #167 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakewalk_S View Post

Cyclops,
Could you please go get some sand paper, like 600-800-1000grit sand paper and sand down the edges of the IHS a little. I'm 99.9% sure that it won't do any harm to increase temperatures of the CPU, if anything, if you do it enough, you should have lower temperatures. Let me know what you think when you take it back out with the spread on the die. My prediction is the contact between the IHS and die is poor due to the IHS being too thick around the edges. Sand those down and you'll see a respectable temperature drop. Its proven on alot of Nvidia cards.
Good luck!

Ah I would, but I've already put the bare chip under water and I'm doing testings.

This guy did a re-paste and saw -9C, and that's after +3C to ambient during the modded test:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?280892-3770k-IHS-Removals-CPU-temp-dropped-from-79C-to-71C

Including this one, that's three tests that I know of where Intel's TIM is proven to cause high temps.
Edited by samwiches - 5/14/12 at 8:42pm
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post #168 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

But for Cyclops, "under water" just means "using H50" heh.

If you're done trolling I'd like to post the results for my next batch of testings.

After removing the IHS and putting the naked chip under water (Read bellow for watercooling components), and running almost everything on stock, the temps droped by a further 5.75C from the replaced TIM test for a total of 7.75C cooler than the intel's solution (Still using MX-4)

The overclocked temps were the real nut busters though. Under water temps droped another 10.75C compared to the replaced TIM test which is 15.75C cooler than the original thermal solution.

WC Components:

XSPC Raystorm
EK 240 Rad (45mm Thick)
XSPC H20 200 Pump/Res Combo (200 L/H)
2 x Corsair 2600 RPM Fans (Same fans that come with a H100)

And...

Distilled Water.

PS: I had to remove the motherboard's retention bracket and mount to make the waterblock contact properly.

PPS: Had to change some hardware this time around:

Asus Sabertooth Z77
8 GB 2400 MHz Gskill
Silverstone ST1200

Pictures and videos coming soon.
Edited by Cyclops - 5/14/12 at 9:10pm
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post #169 of 298
Sounds great. +Rep.

So far maybe the best results of anyone who's tried this.

But I thought you started with the H50. Was the Raystorm used with the IHS tests?
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post #170 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

. Was the Raystorm used with the IHS tests?

No. I only used it during the last test.
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Asus Xonar DSX 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4770K @ 4.7 GHz 1.39V Maximus VI Gene MSI GTX 1070 Seahawk EK X @ 2.1/9.0 Ghz 16GB G.Skill Sniper 2600 MHz 11-14-14-14-2T 1.65V 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Seagate Barracuda 8TB I will end you Dazmode Darkside Maple Leaf Special Edition 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK GTX 1070 Seahawk Feser TFC Admiral 240 Black Ice GTX Xtreme M92 6 * Silverstone SST-FN121-P 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2 * Noctua NF-B9 Redux 8 Pro 64-bit Samsung U28D590D 28" 4K Overlord Tempest X270OC 27" 1440P @ 72 Hz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance K60 EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 NZXT Vulcan (With Attached Handle) Logitech G500 
Mouse Pad
XTRAC PADS Ripper XXL 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
E5-2670 Supermicro X9SRA 64GB Samsung ECC 1333 MHz Mushkin Ventura Pro 32GB (Boot) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
10 * 6TB HGST Deskstar NAS (RAID Z2) I will harm you Corsair H60 FreeNAS 9.10 
PowerCase
Corsair RM650 (Passive) Fractal Design Define R5 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Video Added + Watercooling Results] Replacing the internal IHS TIM of an i7 3770K