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670 vs 7950 overclocking war - Page 4

post #31 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPoe View Post

Guess what though (and this is why i didn't mention it) if you look at the stock 7950 numbers and the stock 7970 numbers in both graphs, you see this:
in the 670 graph the Stock 7950 scores 28 min, 70 max, 43.3 avg
in the 7950 graph the Stock 7970 scores 26 min, 69 max, 44.3 avg
I think we both agree a stock 7970 is better than a stock 7950?
This tells you one of two things: 1.) they forgot to mention that 2xMSAA is on in the 670 graph because if you look at the Stock 7950 avg fps it's actually LOWER than the avg fps in the 7970 graph where they say 2xMSAA is on, or 2.) 2xMSAA makes a game easier to run (or is completely negligible difference) because the Stock 7950 in the 670 graph had a LOWER avg fps score than the 7970 in the 7950 graph.
Trust me, i think of everything thumb.gif

Nop the first one review was with earlier drivers. I get some nice increase fps in bf3 with the latest drivers so i expect the same
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post #32 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Nop the first one review was with earlier drivers. I get some nice increase fps in bf3 with the latest drivers so i expect the same

That's true but i already accounted for them because the 7950 in the 670 graph is getting 43.3 fps and the 7970 in the 7950 graph is getting 44.3 fps. That's a difference of only 2% between a 7950 and a 7970 when it should be ~10% difference. That leaves an 8% difference unaccounted for, which must be made up from drivers and/or 2xMSAA. But based on what i've seen, the driver change alone explains this 8% and leave me with my original point:

Either HardOCP forgot to say they had 2xMSAA on or it has a negligible impact on performance.

BUT lets assume here that 8% difference was ALL because of 2xMSAA being left off (but we both know probably 7.5% of that was because of drivers, not MSAA), so i will boost the overclocked 7950 by 8%:
7950: original 54.2 ---> 58.5
compared to
670: 58.1

So you see, even with that assumption, the 670 and 7950 are practically dead even. But wait, this is a reference 670 and that's a non-reference 7950 (which costs $40 more than a reference 670), non-reference models almost always overclock better (by ~5%) so i need to boost the 670 by 5% to make this fair:

7950: 58.5
670: 61/0

Now the 670 is back ahead. So even assuming the WORST POSSIBLE case and giving the 7950 a free 8% bump just because, we see the 670 still comes ahead. Also keep in mind, the 670 just came out so it will have better drivers out soon too, that's why this ENTIRE debate here is irrelevant. Both reviews were using release drivers for each card, so in the end, assuming both NVidia and AMD have equal quality drivers production, then this becomes a negligible constant that doesn't need to be mathematically explained.
post #33 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

how the hell you get P9106 with 1250 on the core?? when i get P9074
with a mild oc of 1150 on it??
and btw your cpu have 200mhz extra on the 670 so that helps the score to rise better on the 670 bench.. suicide run? lol
http://3dmark.com/3dm11/3411839;jsessionid=7ixh5n3rs172dj9fqq5gb3ma
I surely blows your 670 out of the water with a lil bit more... XD
I think is time to spent money on the cpu so you can add extra performance on top of that so your shinny 670 performs by good numbers..

its 2 mhz more not 200 lol , I have those settings saved in my bios so i can compare.

4.2ghz vs 4198mhz lol thats +2mhz

your link says your cpu speed is 2147483647 MHz ***

that 2500k of yours should be smacking the crap out of my i5-750 even at 4.2ghz , I think your score should be higher than that dude i dont know whats up with your rig.

the 7970 i had surely does not ever beat my 670 at least in my rig, i tried like hell to beat my old gtx 470 sli record for myself with the 7970 and FAILED heres the link

edit: furthermore if I had paid $399 for the 7970 , i would have kept it , however at the time it was $599 and i didnt feel it was worth it. Now i have the 670 and it performs better in MY rig , and for $399.
Edited by dumpsterj - 5/14/12 at 4:11pm
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post #34 of 71
A reference 7950 with a non-reference 7950 its even. The better cooler doesnt mean lower potential in overclock. For example the reference 7970 especially sapphire/asus from what i seen in this forum and general have the most overclock potential except msi lightning but thats its a lightning. Your logical that a non-reference card is 5% better from a reference card doesnt apply to this generation of ATi. In kepler yeah (gtx670 cheaper-shorter pcb) but in ati no. Also you must take in account that the actual clocks of a gtx670 is around 1 ghz.(not the defaults clocks) and already the 7900 series is underclock. Also bf3 works better in nvidia like anno works better in ati
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II 965@3.8(missing 2 Pins lolz) Asus Crosshair V Sapphire 7970 ref. (1250/1900 @1.2/1.65) Kingston 8 GB 
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WD Blue 1TB Corsair H60 (Push-Pull) Windows 7 Ultimate Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 
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My Rig
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Amd system
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II 965@3.8(missing 2 Pins lolz) Asus Crosshair V Sapphire 7970 ref. (1250/1900 @1.2/1.65) Kingston 8 GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSKeyboard
WD Blue 1TB Corsair H60 (Push-Pull) Windows 7 Ultimate Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Coolermaster HAF 932 (red edition) Razer Imperator 2012(Mass effect) Razer Goliath 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel 3930k@4.5 Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2x vtx3d 7970 1100/900@1volt 2xSapphire 7970 1100/900@0.95volt 
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Ek 7970 Ek supremacy 3x Alphacool monsta 360 
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post #35 of 71
Thread Starter 
3dmark 11 love nvidia cards
so lets give it a Heaven DX11 Benchmark
7970 1070 clock only 145mhz
680 1202 bost only 202mhz

377

377
post #36 of 71
post #37 of 71
Thread Starter 

that hardcop r silly thay dont oc 7950 coz thay dont want it to destroy gtx670 and oc the gtx680/670 to high 300mhz+ and thay but nvidia games only if thay but metro crysis 1.2 alan wake OC 7950 300mhz the gtx680/670 will be in bad situation

326

even that poor oc 7950 can do a good jop
Edited by mltms - 5/16/12 at 7:40am
post #38 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by mltms View Post

that hardcop r silly thay dont oc 7950 coz thay dont want it to destroy gtx670 and oc the gtx680/670 to high 300mhz+ and thay but nvidia games only if thay but metro crysis 1.2 alan wake OC 7950 300mhz the gtx680/670 will be in bad situation
326
even that poor oc 7950 can do a good jop

Sorry, but no. Both cards are about evenly overclocked. A high-end 670 overclock is about 1350, a high-end 7950 overclock is about 1200 (ratio of 1.125 to 1). The 670 in that review is at 1234, that 7950 is at 1050, (ratio of 1.175 to 1). So that means the 7950 is only 4% underclocked here. A 4% overclock translates to about a 2.8% increase in performance for a 7950, so if we increase the 7950 by 2.8% we get 56.23fps which is still lower than the 670 at 58.1 fps. But the thing is, a 670 is MUCH more likely to hit 1350 than a 7950 is to hit 1200. Anyways, the point is, people need to stop trying to compare them clock for clock because the 670 will always hit a higher frequency than a 7950.
post #39 of 71
LOL a whole thread debating what card clocks higher....
Get some LN2 then shut the hell up, jeeze.

7970/670/680 are withing punching distance of each other... what is so hard to understand?

Things to be worried about when getting a card:
Heat.
Power consumption.
Driver stability.
features (physX/ openCL)

What in gods name is hard to understand about that?
Any overclocking headroom is an added bonus.
I am an enthusiast and a overclocker, but the arguments here are petty.
post #40 of 71
I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread... even though it's not going to change the fact that I'm buying a 670 no matter what even though I'm "an AMD guy" and all. I feel like features such as adaptive vertical sync in itself make the 670 a better buy. I don't know about you but I play with Vsync on and I have a 60Hz monitor. When I dip below 60FPS, I'm running at 30FPS - EW.

AMD's drivers don't allow for that, and Nvidia always seems to have AMD beat on the drivers front lately. All that power of a 7970 means nothing to me if the drivers suck, and I've had nothing but issues with all my AMD cards and their drivers lately. I don't care about gimmicks like PhysX, but TSAA is far from a gimmick and is another place where AMD just doesn't compete right now.

I was going for a 7970, but now I'm just waiting for a 670 TOP from Asus and I feel a lot better about that purchase right now.
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