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[TPU] TIM is Behind Ivy Bridge Temperatures After All - Page 16

post #151 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by shzero0 View Post

Could you create your own thread with the results instead of posting here? It would make my life a lot easier. lol biggrin.gif

+1 and some mods, please make it sticky please! tongue.gif
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post #152 of 288
Cyclops here has already done a bare die mount on water cooling:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1256249/video-added-watercooling-results-replacing-the-internal-ihs-tim-of-an-i7-3770k#post_17217718

The presentation of data is a mess, and there was a change in cooling method midway through the tests, but it's all in that thread.
Edited by samwiches - 5/15/12 at 2:37pm
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post #153 of 288
Ya I'm going to create a thread for. And I am going to try it with the ihs on and off. I'm not sure if I'll do the liquid pro with the IHS off since from what I saw it kinda makes a bond between the two surfaces, but I got go over the instructions first and see how to apply and such. But I will try no IHS with the IC Diamond 24 Carat paste and Shin-Etsu. By The way all the tests will be done with my water chiller. I figure that if there is a difference in temps it will still translate over to normal WC and on air.I may even lap the IHS to see if that helps, but we'll see how the initial tests look first. I'll post a link in this thread once I create my "EXPERIMENT" thread. biggrin.gif
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post #154 of 288
the old method needed gold.GOLD.AT AN AMOUNT PROBABLY WORTH THE PROC ITSELF LOL.another thing.as die shrink.so must the tim atomic size.when was the last time you saw specially made 22nm tim ?i havent.the shunk are too big .1 chunk of tim prob covert 100 if not 1000 transistor.
post #155 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

because you're confusing "Power" with "Current".

No, I'm not.

I have never once implied current and power were the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

Note the first line "Dramatic performance gain at low operating voltage", and line 3 "Higher drive current"

Drive current and leakage current are not the same. Tri-gate transistors were intended to increase drive current relative to leakage current, and they do, just not as much as Intel was hoping for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

and now tell me the the chips released so far are functioning as designed and it's not a leakage issue caused by fabrication problems.

I have never once said anything contrary to this.

It's blatantly obvious that Intel missed some of their electrical targets, and that this is why heat flux has increased. The die area still shrunk, but leakage didn't shrink as much as necessary to compensate.

Which brings us back to the process shrink being significantly responsible for increased temps.
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post #156 of 288
Does it help?
Sure.

Is it the only cause? No.
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post #157 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I have never once said anything contrary to this.
It's blatantly obvious that Intel missed some of their electrical targets, and that this is why heat flux has increased. The die area still shrunk, but leakage didn't shrink as much as necessary to compensate.
Which brings us back to the process shrink being significantly responsible for increased temps.

LOL...We're both talking about the same thing. When I said people are blaming "die shrink" I mean those that are parrotting the party line heard lately that somehow going from 32nm to 22nm is responsible because it and I quote "is unable to transfer the heat to the heatsink because of the reduced surface area". Which I think is a complete BS excuse for what is going on with Ivy Bridge. What I'm saying is that because of fabrication problems (with the new 22nm process), the chips are not operating at the lower voltage they are supposed to be at. Couple that with the added current required by the new gates and that's why we're seeing only a few chips able to operate at, for example, 4.5GHz @ 1.09V with temps in the 60's and most others are in the 1.3+ range at the same speed and temps in the 80's or 90's. The use of TIM doesn't explain that anamoly and the "die shrink heat dissapation" theory doesn't explain that as well. That leaves only one likely culprit, high leakage due to fabrication issues.

edit - I've been pointing out since Ivy Bridge was released that the voltage levels as you put it "missed their mark" and the fanboys are acting like I'm a moon landing conspiracy nut.
Edited by Bubba Hotepp - 5/16/12 at 2:05am
post #158 of 288
There are no immediate comparisons to i7 2700K temperatures what I can see so I'll provide one comparison.

PC Watch
Code:
i7-3770K @ 4,6 Ghz 1,2 V with Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E and Stock TIM:  84 C
                                                           . . . Liquid Pro: 64 C

SweClockers
Code:
i7-2700K @ 4,7 Ghz 1,4 V with Zalman CNPS9900 MAX:   68 C
i7-3770K @ 4,7 Ghz 1,325 V with Zalman CNPS9900 MAX: 86 C

The quality TIM (Liquid Pro) temperature results for i7-3770K are close to the temperature result for i7-2700K, indicating that the i7-3770K and i7-2700K are equally hot with a comparable IHS mounting.

The stock TIM temperature results are close, indicating that this is a reliable result that can be expected from an average sample.

Let's hope the Haswell manufacturing is reverted to a high quality IHS mounting!
post #159 of 288
Just chiming in here as it's an interesting read, everyone's curious about what's going on with IVB from a heat standpoint, but I thought I'd make a quick comment from a manufacturing/supplier side.

In over 15 years of overclocking and PC building, half of it while working at Corsair, I've never seen a 20C delta from TIM alone.

Here's a test from Dan's Data almost 10 years ago where he tested heatsink grease versus stuff like toothpaste.
http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

Even that, the biggest gap there is about .03C/W, or at 100W, about 3 degrees C. I've personally seen gaps up to 5-7C that are completely attributable to TIM, but that's the gap between the old fashioned clumsy thermal pads and a high quality TIM like Shin-Etsu or something.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that even if IVB used the same exact TIM mounting procedure as SB, that IVB would still be hotter.

But this is just speculation based on experience. Does the TIM play a part? Possibly. Probably. But I can't see it being the only difference.
post #160 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

-snip-

Have you had a chance to see this vid? He got a more realistic 10 degree drop after the TIM cured.

Just go to the 9:00 minute mark for results.

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