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[TPU] TIM is Behind Ivy Bridge Temperatures After All - Page 22

post #211 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I can't believe you are looking at those ten IB stable results as if they are suspicious, or as if they disprove any argument. They look perfectly normal---some good, some bad. Now read the Ivy Bridge Owner's thread, which has about a hundred times more results.
As for my reading of wattage numbers, just how do I do it? When the device says THIS MANY WATTS, what am I supposed to think? Again, no video card in use, as stated.
Now what does your meter on your system say? YAH okay.
I don't see why are you trying so hard to go against the obvious flow of info that shows how much less power IB uses, and how much more potential overclocked performance it's got over SB.

Who said anything about those results being suspicious? It's YOUR results that are suspicious. Specifically your power usage claims. Want to remove doubt? Post pictures of your system running under load with a multi-meter showing power consumption. Going so hard against the "flow of info"? Show me how everyone agrees and has hard data proving that the majority of IB chips consume less power. The proof is in the pudding as they say.
Edited by Bubba Hotepp - 5/17/12 at 3:03pm
    
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post #212 of 288
I take, for the most part, Anand for gospel. Just saying; it's a preference.

....and I'm curious, if IB-E will use solder versus TIM.
post #213 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

I can't believe you are looking at those ten IB stable results as if they are suspicious, or as if they disprove any argument. They look perfectly normal---some good, some bad. Now read the Ivy Bridge Owner's thread, which has about a hundred times more results.
As for my reading of wattage numbers, just how do I do it? When the device says THIS MANY WATTS, what am I supposed to think? Again, no video card in use, as stated.
Now what does your meter on your system say? YAH okay.
I don't see why are you trying so hard to go against the obvious flow of info that shows how much less power IB uses, and how much more potential overclocked performance it's got over SB.

Who said anything about those results being suspicious? It's YOUR results that are suspicious. Specifically your power usage claims. Want to remove doubt? Post pictures of your system running under load with a multi-meter showing power consumption. Going so hard against the "flow of info"? Show me how everyone agrees and has hard data proving that the majority of IB chips consume less power. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Ohh, now I see---you skipped over the post where you just got completely owned. Tell all of these websites that they are reading their power draw wrong:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1256584/tpu-tim-is-behind-ivy-bridge-temperatures-after-all/200#post_17263277
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post #214 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiches View Post

Ohh, now I see---you skipped over the post where you just got completely owned. Tell all of these websites that they are reading their power draw wrong:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1256584/tpu-tim-is-behind-ivy-bridge-temperatures-after-all/200#post_17263277

Completely owned? Are you insane? I just posted 2 reviews where they completely disagree with those results. Again, you can't take a "few" results and consider it gospel. There is abosolutely ZERO chance that when the majority of users are only posting at most a .1 lower voltage than SB that they are consuming LESS power than IB when intel itself stated that tri-gate uses higher drive current (or did YOU completely skip over or ignore that info). But let's look at the rest of the reviews.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3720qm-ivy-bridge-mobile-ultrabook,3185-7.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1914/15/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1924/9/
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/38421-intel-core-i5-3570k-22nm-ivy-bridge/?page=8


I have to run an errand so I'll be back later with even more reviews but even best case scenario I see only 5-15W lower power consumption and that's at stock. We all know when OC'd things suddenly aren't so rosey for IB.
    
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post #215 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

Completely owned? Are you insane? I just posted 2 reviews where they completely disagree with those results.

You posted one first impression review from a site no-one really has heard of. The other one, Legitreviews, has the same (1w is more than the margin of error) results for both chips. Yeah, higher power consumption. And he posted more than 2 reviews...Considering one of your reviews is comparing an underclocked SB to IB (Both dual cores) and the other one is within the margin of error, you haven't got any realistic proof at all. I'd sooner believe the guy quoting Anand, TPU, etc than someone quoting a relatively unknown web-site and one other within the margin of error.

And you're seriously trying to argue this? IB only has 20% more transistors than SB, there have been bigger increases in transistor count and leaking while still lowering power consumption.
..As for your "15w lower power consumption": Bam, 30w lower at stock there on the Intel reference Z77 board. You can't have been looking hard.
Edited by Brutuz - 5/17/12 at 3:46pm
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post #216 of 288
So he's become knowledgable on power consumption during the last two posts.

But the "best case scenario" he mentions ignores the entire page of data that just passed. That's not very honest. Info there includes findings from Anandtech and first hand data from an OCN user who he tried to imply was somehow incompetent or dishonest, just moments ago, before being corrected with information that was already in front of him. Some piece of work...

Bubba, what do offer here, besides antagonism? Get off it. Get laid or have a beer or something. kookoo.gif
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post #217 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

Completely owned? Are you insane? I just posted 2 reviews where they completely disagree with those results. Again, you can't take a "few" results and consider it gospel. There is abosolutely ZERO chance that when the majority of users are only posting at most a .1 lower voltage than SB that they are consuming LESS power than IB when intel itself stated that tri-gate uses higher drive current (or did YOU completely skip over or ignore that info). But let's look at the rest of the reviews.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3720qm-ivy-bridge-mobile-ultrabook,3185-7.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1914/15/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1924/9/
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/38421-intel-core-i5-3570k-22nm-ivy-bridge/?page=8
I have to run an errand so I'll be back later with even more reviews but even best case scenario I see only 5-15W lower power consumption and that's at stock. We all know when OC'd things suddenly aren't so rosey for IB.

1. Why are you bringing in mobile Ivy Bridge into this? We're clearly talking about desktop IB vs desktop SB. For those Tom's Hardware results, it can mean any number of things, since they're using gaming tests, which is also dependent on the iGPU. Stronger iGPU = more CPU power needed to drive it. Also, even though the CPU utilization is higher, the power consumption remains the same. I don't get what you're trying to say here, unless you're mixing up the CPU utilization and power consumption graphs. Additionally, the 3720QM is clocked 300 mhz higher at stock and has a 200 mhz higher turbo boost.

2. The first legitreviews page you posted shows the 3770k using 12 less watts in P95 than the lower clocked 2600k. It's safe to say that the Hawx 2 result is mostly GPU power consumption.

3. Shows that power consumption are equal. There is a significant margin of error (can be up to 20 watts off or more) when using Kill-a-watt meters. Almost every other article I've seen has shown lower power consumption, including the two you posted.

4. Shows that the 3570k power consumption is lower than 2500k, and 3770k power consumption is lower than 2700k, by up to 20 watts. Not sure what you're trying to prove here? I think you need to try looking at the charts again, since they are a bit confusing as to which bar is which.
Edited by Tsumi - 5/17/12 at 4:36pm
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post #218 of 288
When Bubba gets back from his errands he'd better be ready to give up this crap. stitchfacesmiley.png
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post #219 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

You posted one first impression review from a site no-one really has heard of. The other one, Legitreviews, has the same (1w is more than the margin of error) results for both chips. Yeah, higher power consumption. And he posted more than 2 reviews...Considering one of your reviews is comparing an underclocked SB to IB (Both dual cores) and the other one is within the margin of error, you haven't got any realistic proof at all. I'd sooner believe the guy quoting Anand, TPU, etc than someone quoting a relatively unknown web-site and one other within the margin of error.
And you're seriously trying to argue this? IB only has 20% more transistors than SB, there have been bigger increases in transistor count and leaking while still lowering power consumption.
..As for your "15w lower power consumption": Bam, 30w lower at stock there on the Intel reference Z77 board. You can't have been looking hard.

Actually wrong, on the CPU side of IB it does NOT have 20% more transistors than SB That's on the GPU side.

Secondly, The FIRST review I posted is not a "no name" review site. It's a well respected review site, just not in america or europe (did you miss the fact that it's source is not in english?).

Lastly, taking ONLY data from a site that matches your theory is NOT an effective way to present your argument. So let's look at them ALL. By the way I LOVE how everyone likes to point out the results of 3770K vs 2600K for performance to show "how much better it is" but when it comes to power consumption everyone starts pointing at the 2700K results. Make up your mind. Interesting to say the least. Make up your mind. It's either comparable to the 2600K or the 2700K.


http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/overclocked-ivy-bridge-chips-run-much-hotter-than-sandy-bridge-20120427/ (note the sentence "the power usage was slightly higher for the 3770K, voltages were almost the same")

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-3770k-i5-3570k_8.html#sect0

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22833 "236W under load" and it's at a voltage a lot of people are showing results for at 4.5 - 4.6.

And I'll just let you peruse the rest of the results for yourself (and wait for the "oh but they aren't anandtech response).

So let's again revisit your claim that on an overclocked 3570K it's 40W less than a 2500K. And unless you "magically" got 3 "golden" chips in a row operating at below 1.2V at 4.5 I'm still calling BS.
    
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post #220 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

10 posted results. Out of the 4 at or near 4.5 only 2 are operating below 1.3V and only 1 "golden" chip is operating at below 1.1V which is where, by design, most should be operating at. Out of the whole list there are only 2 that are at the target or near it (the last at 1.09 and the 3rd 1.232 @ 4.8).

Let me get one thing out of the way.... "by design most should be operating at 1.1v with a 4.5 GHZ OC?" Please link me to Intel's spec sheet where they claim this.

In regards to the bolded part, I count 4, not 2 below 1.3v.

punceh 4800.6mhz 1.232v 13hrs 72-74-76-70 AIR - Megahalem 3570k
leoxtxt 4301.2mhz 1.212v 12hrs 74-73-70-71 WATER - Antec 920 3570k
Atlas101 4400.6mhz 1.280v 13hrs 86-89-86-84 AIR - Thermaltake Frio 3570k
HardwareDecoder 4400.3mhz 1.200v 17hrs 70-76-75-72 AIR - 212 Evo 3570k

Are you at all familiar with Ivy's TJ Max & their Max Voltage?

277

183

Source Intel Datasheet Vol. 1

I don't recommend people going above 1.4v though, and highly recommend staying below 1.35v. So long as temps are below 90 degrees, Ivy users have nothing to worry about. If their chips were to falter under these guidelines, Intel is pretty good with handling RMA's. Don't take my word for it, just ask Grunion about his RMA experience:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1002118/intel-rma/0_50

He didn't update that particular thread, but he got a new processor within a week IIRC.

Plus you can always spend an extra $25 for Overclock protection for 3 years if you're that concerned about it. Do note that protection is for running your chip OUTSIDE the recommended specs.
Quote:
Performance Tuning Protection Plan by Intel®
The Performance Tuning Protection Plan being offered by Intel is a chance for you to experiment with the overclocking features of your processor without the worries of what will happen if you push the processor too far. The Plan allows you a single processor replacement, hassle-free, from our customer support. This is in addition to your standard 3 year warranty. In other words, if it fails under normal usage, we will replace it under the standard warranty; if it fails while running outside of Intel's specifications, we will replace it under the Performance Tuning Protection Plan.

Anyway, looking over at all 10 results you posted, their voltages and temps are perfectly fine within spec.
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