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[Various] AMD Trinity APU Review Roundup - Page 35

post #341 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

It's because if you paid any attention to the architecture and read any of the threads, Trinity uses VLIW4 cores, which is the same type of core as used in the 6xxx series. The newer 77xx series and up uses GCN cores, which would require a massive amount of work to make it run properly in crossfire with VLIW4 cores.

6670 is VLIW5 so the argument that they have to have the same architecture is moot. And if the 6670 is VLIW4 for whatever reason, it would've had to crossfire with the VLIW5 Llano so either way something is weird here.
     
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post #342 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by armourcore9brker View Post

6670 is VLIW5 so the argument that they have to have the same architecture is moot. And if the 6670 is VLIW4 for whatever reason, it would've had to crossfire with the VLIW5 Llano so either way something is weird here.

Umm... no, the 6xxx series are all VLIW4. The 5xxxx series are VLIW5, and Llano, which is VLIW5, can only crossfire with low-end 5xxx cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmotty View Post

I read that. But I guess I don't understand the 'WHY' behind it. Why not use GCN cores? Keeping cost down I suppose?

GCN was not ready when Trinity was in development. VLIW4 was ready and was proven. The successor to Trinity will be using GCN cores.
Edited by Tsumi - 10/4/12 at 2:50pm
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post #343 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post


Umm... no, the 6xxx series are all VLIW4. The 5xxxx series are VLIW5, and Llano, which is VLIW5, can only crossfire with low-end 5xxx cards.

You were saying?

LLANO-27.png

6670 is also VLIW5.

Source
     
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post #344 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by armourcore9brker View Post

You were saying?
LLANO-27.png
6670 is also VLIW5.
Source

I stand corrected. However, VLIW4 is architecturally similar to VLIW5 (as I recall, it's mostly just the removal of one pipeline/shader per unit to make it more efficient), so it's still probably much easier to code a working crossfire solution between the two architectures. GCN is radically different.

Not to mention, there are no low-end GCN cards yet, and it's unlikely there will be low-end GCN cards with the 66xx series and lower being rebranded to 76xx series.
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post #345 of 361
VLIW4 = 4 ALUs
VLIW5 = 4 ALUs + 1 SFU

Turks is a Hybrid VLIW4/VLIW5 design upgraded from the Redwood VLIW5 design. Turks is more VLIW4 than VLIW5 overall as the SFUs are barely used. You can say the same for Caicos and Cedar as well.
Edited by Seronx - 10/4/12 at 3:40pm
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post #346 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Now this I can get behind:
x264-power-amd.gif
Completes ever so slightly after the FX 4170, but with somewhere near 40% less power using GPU acceleration. On the flip side, Bulldozer looks all the more awful:
x264-power-total-energy.gif
AMD needs to keep pushing the OpenCL adoption, because the results are very, very real. Unfortunately, the results are practically as real as they would have been with Llano. Piledriver looks like a great improvement over Bulldozer — pretty much exactly where I expected it. Modest gains, but crucial ones. Unfortunately, Llano's Husky cores still draw less power. On the graphics side, VLIW4 wasn't impressive in 69xx, and it isn't impressive here either. GCN on the other hand...

Since you have mentioned the FX-4170 vs A10-5800K, and the difference in power consumption credit for these results goes to Resonant Clock Mash. wink.gif

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-5800k_9.html#sect0

http://techreport.com/news/22520/trinity-to-boost-performance-save-power-with-resonant-clock-mesh





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post #347 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterox View Post

Since you have mentioned the FX-4170 vs A10-5800K, and the difference in power consumption credit for these results goes to Resonant Clock Mash. wink.gif
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-5800k_9.html#sect0
http://techreport.com/news/22520/trinity-to-boost-performance-save-power-with-resonant-clock-mesh

RCM doesn't take all the credit though.

There is the replacement of soft edge flops with hard edge flops, integration of the NB onto the CPU, and various other architectural tweaks.
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post #348 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Definitely. People don't seem to remember that a lot of the features that give SB its high IPC aren't present in the Pentium line, and some aren't even in the i3 line. K10.5/Piledriver's IPC is roughly 20% behind that of the SB Pentium. However, the SB Pentium can't overclock, while these Athlons are coming in at 30-40% higher stock clock speeds. Plus the Athlons have double the integer cores. You can see what I'm getting at here.
Though to be fair AMD is pricing them a bit higher. The Pentium G850 (2.9GHz) goes for $70 on Newegg. Dunno what the markup on the X4 740 will be like; $85 retail perhaps? Which would be fair for a chip that, assuming bclk overclocking is similar to that of llano, can probably achieve between 3.9 and 4.2GHz on average.
As far as the A8 and A10 vs the i3 go, I think that Tom's HW review says it all: trades blows in CPU performance at stock, Trinity can overclock, Trinity decimates in terms of IGP strength. AMD's IPC is still something like 30% behind that of the i3 though so you're going to have to get a decent overclock to get similar single thread performance (remember that the i3 has HT and Trinity has a shared front-end in each module so even though one is marketed as 2C and the other as 4C they don't scale very differently from one another in multithreaded).

Trinity is behind 30% in fpu performance, This likely isn't very bothersome, from what I have read on the subject. About 10-20% of all cpu instructions require the fpu, so it is very unlikely to be a big deal to 90% of users. To people who need FPU performance, its a very very big deal. Some of the FPU performance advantage is that Intel has optimized a lot for older instructions, where AMD has focus optimization and R&D dollars into new instructions.

I think with Steamroller, we will finally get to see the chip AMD really wanted to build.
post #349 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmotty View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

It's because if you paid any attention to the architecture and read any of the threads, Trinity uses VLIW4 cores, which is the same type of core as used in the 6xxx series. The newer 77xx series and up uses GCN cores, which would require a massive amount of work to make it run properly in crossfire with VLIW4 cores.

I read that. But I guess I don't understand the 'WHY' behind it. Why not use GCN cores? Keeping cost down I suppose?
It can be a bit confusing. It takes years to design a CPU and an APU is even more complex. You have to use what's available to you at the time. When AMD was designing Trinity the best GPU they had finished was VLIW4 which is the same type of shaders in the HD6900 series GPUs. Maybe eventually AMD will be able to co-design both the APU and GPU so it can have current gen GPU but they are not there yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by armourcore9brker View Post

6670 is VLIW5 so the argument that they have to have the same architecture is moot. And if the 6670 is VLIW4 for whatever reason, it would've had to crossfire with the VLIW5 Llano so either way something is weird here.

Umm... no, the 6xxx series are all VLIW4. The 5xxxx series are VLIW5, and Llano, which is VLIW5, can only crossfire with low-end 5xxx cards
You have already been corrected but let me just add my two cents.

First off, only the HD6900 series uses the full VLIW4 shader design. Seronx might be right about the HD6400-HD6800 series having a hybrid (VLIW4-VLIW5) design but I can't confirm that for sure. From what I've read the HD6400-HD6800 series use a VLIW5 design with updates such as a new UVD version, and the HD6900 series use VLIW4.

So since the HD6400, HD6500, and HD6600 series use basically a VLIW5 GPU then that is why they can be hybrid crossfired with a VLIW5 Llano APU. Now don't ask me why you can hybrid crossfire a HD6670 (as well as the HD7670 rebrand, among others) with a Trinity APU. Maybe that possible hybrid design that Seronx mentioned comes into play here. Whereas GCN is just too different so it's not possible to hybrid crossfire an HD7700 series card and a VLIW4 Trinity APU.
Edited by Ben the OCer - 10/4/12 at 5:21pm
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post #350 of 361
Let's Bump This up!
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