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[Various] AMD Trinity APU Review Roundup - Page 9

post #81 of 361
5/15/12 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by conzilla View Post

For those of you that dont know already. Its impossible to argue on amds behalf. Gpu performance could be 100% better than the intel 4000 and people would argue the one benchmark where it is only 90% faster. Look at the threads about the 7970 and the 680 maybe 5-8% difference most of the time and bickering is 40 pages long.

Duly noted. I remember 10s of pages of people bickering about AMD "cheating" with IQ through the CCC; I believe the end result was a driver fix, problem solved. Now, HD 3000 has ATROCIOUS image quality (it's laughable when Anandtech points out how terrible it is), HD 4000 improved somewhat but HD 4k's IQ is still lower than Llano's IQ (and certainly lower than Trinity's). So you'll have to crank up Intel settings to try to get IQ as good as AMD's, or just take the high IQ and higher performance out the box with Trinity. Ooooh decisions... Intel integrated fanboys are the worst kind.
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post #82 of 361
5/15/12 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

Oh no, Pentium 4 flashback!!!
KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!
(or just wait until it bursts into flames, lol)



Piledriver Core/ Desktop PC or Vichera will have no problems with overheating, in relation to the Bulldozer when the CPU works at high frequencies say 5GHz due to Resident Clock Mash. First you have to be well informed and then write something clever otherwise your look very childish.biggrin.gifrolleyes.gif

http://www.overclock.net/t/1253323/pcper-trinity-improvements-include-updated-piledriver-cores-and-vliw4-gpus/30#post_17166434
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post #83 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

Oh no, Pentium 4 flashback!!!
KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!
(or just wait until it bursts into flames, lol)

The Pentium 4 (Northwood, at least) was a great chip.

Everyone remembers Prescott which was Intel taking it to an extreme, obviously it failed hard. It ran ultra hot and didn't really clock much higher than Northwood did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Good point, what are the odds of Piledriver hitting 6GHZ on air?

Good question, not many people outside of AMD have one yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Lower than the odds of AMD shortening the pipeline to slightly increase IPC. That's if they haven't already with Trinity mobile.

They didn't.

Bulldozer is a great chip, but there are definite limitations and problems caused by AMD just trying to get a chip out. In real world (What is this PCMark and 3DMark? I don't run them day to day wink.gif) Bulldozer is just as fast or faster than Phenom II, in my experience anyway. Going from an x3 720 @ 3.6Ghz to a FX-4170 @ 4.8Ghz made games (Especially Skyrim) run smoother and x264 encoding and compression via WinRAR got faster. I expected the encoding to be faster, after all it's got an extra core but even limiting it to three cores still shows a performance increase.
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post #84 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

The GPU thoroughly spanks HD 4000 in some games and is neck-and-neck in others...bad drivers?

This is exactly what I was wondering. It seems too inconsistent to be architectural favoring from one title to another. I think the drivers are just early and that these *might* be abnormalities from that. I'm probably just being hopeful though.
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post #85 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:22am
@ThePath

Please stop showing comparisons of the i7-3720QM vs. the A10-4600. The intel notebook is going to be around $300-500 more expensive than AMD's offering. If the prices were the same, you'd have a valid point, but I would hope the intel system would be faster.

Also, Skyrim benefits from a faster CPU. So does L4D2 and Dirt 3. Since the i7-3720QM is the superior CPU, it's sort of a moot point.

In otherwords, you're cherry picking too.
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post #86 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_rich View Post

Not the APU itself, Piledriver performs no better then Bulldozer.

What drugs are you taking? They must be pretty awesome, because you're out of your mind.

It's about 20% faster than Llano, which was K10.5 based, while being a 10w lower TDP part. 20% faster and using less power. Not the same power... less. They managed to raise clock speed by 53% at stock and 33% higher turbo core, all in a lower thermal envelope.

Bulldozer was hardly any better than K10.5. This is a 20% improvement.

It's hard to tell if IPC changed at all or not... the benchmarking suite on AT was pretty limited.

To me, the biggest letdown about Trinity is its GPU performance. I'm not sure I want to game with those frame rates. Ivy Bridge isn't terribly far behind either... I'm thinking this is likely to do with CPU performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Good question, not many people outside of AMD have one yet to find out.

I honestly think that it could hit 6GHz... RCM is a pretty powerful innovation, and it only gets better at higher clock speeds.
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post #87 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:37am
there is no substitute for end-user overall experience and feedback;
Quote:
Only Deus Ex: Human Revolution shows roughly similar results, but the in-game experience was slightly better with Trinity. As you can see in the results, Intel HD 4000 suffered a low minimum framerate. This showed up in-game via a few instances of sluggishness, each lasting a few seconds.

1. image quality
2. 90% frames above 50ms (like how techreport does reviews.)
3. overall user experience, skippy frames(?)

only way HD4000 matches trinity is if it gimps image quality.(tested vs. my HD6450 htpc)
note the overall disinterest on said topic here.

*notes;

amd fx gamexperience, better gaming polled on amd systems: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1838/1/
amd trinity video- (17w tdp for same performance as 35w llano): http://youtu.be/lsmTDb-Mlws
AMD Trinity blind test, AMD preferred ~80% of the time over intel;
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-amd-confidently-shares-preview-upcoming-trinity-apu-experience
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post #88 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:41am
With trinity being a near-discrete performance IGP, I wish that they would do benchmarks at higher resolutions (trinity hit over 40 FPS in almost every Anand test). This would also get rid of the CPU bias in several tests.

As to CPU performance, it's sufficient, but AMD really needs a true quad-core to compete in FPU-heavy benchmarks (the dual-FPU results in trinity being beat by intel dual-cores and much worse by intel quad-cores).

@chemicalfan The IPC of trinity (while lower than IB by a significant margin) is MUCH higher than P4 while the delta between 4 piledriver modules and IB is much smaller than the delta (in both performance and power consumption, as trinity shows) that was between P4 and A64.

For myself, I think I'll have Intel for my desktop (where I do CPU-intensive work), AMD for my laptop (where decent GPU with low-power is more important), and I don't know who for my new tablets (Brazos 2.0, A15, or MIPS proAPTIV).
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post #89 of 361
5/15/12 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Good question, not many people outside of AMD have one yet to find out.
Exactly, until that day, you can't really go around making statements such as these...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

And if Piledriver hits 6Ghz or something, IPC means nothing. Fast clock speeds can make up for bad IPC and visa versa.
You can't always make up for low IPC, by always increasing the clocks. Sure this gen you got away with it, but what about next gen and the one after that?

Just look at Ivy, people were expecting 5.5 GHZ on air, because Sandy clocked so well, those expectations only lead to disappointment.

btw - as I've read more and more reviews, if the price is right, I may still go for Trinity, but there are many other costs I have to factor into the equation.

Those sleekbooks @ $699 are looking really nice!

Some people around here need to remember that not everyone uses their laptop for gaming, just sayin'.
Edited by 2010rig - 5/15/12 at 7:56am
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post #90 of 361
5/15/12 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

I honestly think that it could hit 6GHz... RCM is a pretty powerful innovation, and it only gets better at higher clock speeds.

I think it will on water, or some of the better chips on air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Exactly, until that day, you can't really go around making statements such as these...
You can't always make up for low IPC, by always increasing the clocks. Sure this gen you got away with it, but what about next gen and the one after that?
Just look at Ivy, people were expecting 5.5 GHZ on air, because Sandy clocked so well, those expectations only lead to disappointment.
btw - as I've read more and more reviews, if the price is right, I may still go for Trinity, but there are many other costs I have to factor into the equation.
Those sleekbooks @ $699 are looking really nice!
Some people around here need to remember that not everyone uses their laptop for gaming, just sayin'.

Except at high speeds IPC wouldn't matter. I said "or something", as I didn't mean 6Ghz as a definite number for PD to beat IB either if it sounded like that.

And the difference is SB and IB are made for higher IPC than BD. Think like how Wolfdale clocked a lot higher than Conroe even though the architecture was similar, that's entirely up to the process.

If you had a Northwood/Prescott on 32nm, it'd probably clock higher than SB. For proof, GFs 32nm process doesn't hold a candle to Intels but BD can generally clock as high as SB, the 22nm process isn't as good as the 32nm process (For OCing at least) for Intel and thus IB won't clock as high under air due to limitations. That's why IB was disappointing for a lot of people.
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