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HD6970 VS HD7850 - Page 3

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atham View Post

I am thinking about getting the HD 7950 as well. You might want to wait a bit for nVidia to realease the GTX 660/660ti so that the prices go down (hopefully).

Get a HD 7950 OC card. You can push it to 1050 Mhz in AMD CCC. With MSI Afterburner or Sapphire Trixx you should be able to hit 1150+ Mhz speeds.

Gigabyte HD 7950 Windforce (900 Mhz) - USD 399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125414

Sapphire HD 7950 OC Dual X (950 Mhz) - USD 409
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102991

This is the best high end card when you look at perf/$. You don't run into bandwidth bottlenecks in demanding games like crysis warhead, metro 2033.GTX 670 is power efficient but at the cost of running into bandwidth bottlenecks and running much slower in these games.
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post #22 of 35
Once overclocked the 7850 is faster then an very heavy overclocked 6970.

Here is my 6950 flashed to 6970 @ 1020/1300mhz [a very high OC]
338

Here an 7850 of mine @ 1165/1500.... My other 7850 can clock even higher [1230/1500mhz]
338

Also note the 6970 bench was done on a 2600K and the 7850 with a 2550K, even then the 7850 still outperformed that 6970 with ease.
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post #23 of 35
This might be a silly question but is there any chance that a 7850 can run on a 2GB RAM system (I know 4GB is the minimum).

I'mma buy it next week but I got a bit short in cash and I'm just too excited to wait another more payroll. tongue.gif
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post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Get a HD 7950 OC card. You can push it to 1050 Mhz in AMD CCC. With MSI Afterburner or Sapphire Trixx you should be able to hit 1150+ Mhz speeds.

Gigabyte HD 7950 Windforce (900 Mhz) - USD 399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125414
Sapphire HD 7950 OC Dual X (950 Mhz) - USD 409
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102991
This is the best high end card when you look at perf/$. You don't run into bandwidth bottlenecks in demanding games like crysis warhead, metro 2033.GTX 670 is power efficient but at the cost of running into bandwidth bottlenecks and running much slower in these games.

Have you read any of the reviews? The 670 crushes the 7950 but you're still recommending it?
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShodanMarcus View Post

Have you read any of the reviews? The 670 crushes the 7950 but you're still recommending it?

Some of the crucial points I look at are
1. Most demanding games at the most demanding settings - This gives an idea of how the cards perform when all the resources of the GPU are stressed to the limits - shading power, ROP, bandwidth.
2. Games like call of duty MW2, portal 2, mass effect 3 doing 200 fps at 1080p and 100+ fps at 1600p are useless. Anybody playing at those speeds is not going to feel the difference even if its a 20 fps difference.
3. I look at the following AAA games released in the last 12 months. - BF3, Crysis 2, Skyrim, Alan Wake, Deus Ex, Batman AC, Witcher 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Anno 2070. Skyrim and Deus Ex are not really demanding but very popular games. Rest are really demanding.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1255515/7950-or-gtx-670/50#post_17233881

I will give you a couple of examples of what happens when GTX 600 cards are bandwidth constrained

Metro 2033

1080p very high with DOF (AAA)

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/10
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-680-asus-directcu-ii-top-review/18

HD 7950 (1150 ) - 50 fps
GTX 680 (1137 core / 1267 boost) - 41 fps

Crysis Warhead

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/amd-radeon-7950-review/6
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/7

2560 x 1600 Enthusiast 4x AA
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) - 31.1
HD 7950 (900 Mhz) - 34.4
GTX 680 (1058 boost) - 30.8

From the GTX 680 review

"While Crysis was a strong game for the GTX 580, the same cannot be said of the GTX 680. NVIDIA is off to a very poor start here, with the Radeon HD 7970 easily outperforming the GTX 680, and even the 7950 is tied or nearly tied with the GTX 680 depending on the resolution. On the bright side the GTX 680 does manage to outperform the GTX 580, but only by a relatively meager 17%.

Given the large gap in theoretical performance between the GTX 680 and GTX 580, as it turns out we’ve run into one of the few scenarios where the GTX 680 doesn’t improve on the GTX 580: memory bandwidth. In our overclocking results we discovered that a core overclock had almost no impact on Crysis, whereas a memory overclock improved performance by 8%, almost exactly as much as the memory overclock itself. "

a HD 7950 OC (1150+) will be much faster than a GTX 680 OC (1250+) given HD 7950 scales better because its not bandwidth constrained.

These 2 games clearly illustrate that the GTX 600 cards are bandwidth constrained. I wouldn't want to spend USD 400 on a high end card which is bandwidth constrained in games today. In future you will come across more such scenarios. GTX 670 will be more power efficient. But that is at the cost being bandwidth constrained in the most demanding games. Mostly it depends on how you look at things.
Maybe you prefer power efficiency. But I don't want to be constrained smile.gif
Edited by raghu78 - 5/20/12 at 9:49am
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post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Once overclocked the 7850 is faster then an very heavy overclocked 6970.
Here is my 6950 flashed to 6970 @ 1020/1300mhz [a very high OC]
338
Here an 7850 of mine @ 1165/1500.... My other 7850 can clock even higher [1230/1500mhz]
338
Also note the 6970 bench was done on a 2600K and the 7850 with a 2550K, even then the 7850 still outperformed that 6970 with ease.

I guess Im gonna have to admit that I was wro.....wron.......mistaken. I didnt realize the 7850 could overclock quite so well and that it came to life as much as it did with the overclock. So Ill have to suck it up and say that the 7850 does look to be the better card if youre willing to do some overclocking.

Now that being said, do you have to have a non-reference card in order to overclock it this much? My Sapphire 5870 is reference and so the voltage is locked and I cant change it which means I cant overclock it much at all. My old 4850 I could overclock it like mad with stock voltage but my 5870, not hardly at all. How does this work with the 7850's?
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Some of the crucial points I look at are
1. Most demanding games at the most demanding settings - This gives an idea of how the cards perform when all the resources of the GPU are stressed to the limits - shading power, ROP, bandwidth.
2. Games like call of duty MW2, portal 2, mass effect 3 doing 200 fps at 1080p and 100+ fps at 1600p are useless. Anybody playing at those speeds is not going to feel the difference even if its a 20 fps difference.
3. I look at the following AAA games released in the last 12 months. - BF3, Crysis 2, Skyrim, Alan Wake, Deus Ex, Batman AC, Witcher 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Anno 2070. Skyrim and Deus Ex are not really demanding but very popular games. Rest are really demanding.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1255515/7950-or-gtx-670/50#post_17233881
I will give you a couple of examples of what happens when GTX 600 cards are bandwidth constrained

Metro 2033
1080p very high with DOF (AAA)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/10
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-680-asus-directcu-ii-top-review/18
HD 7950 (1150 ) - 50 fps
GTX 680 (1137 core / 1267 boost) - 41 fps
Crysis Warhead
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/amd-radeon-7950-review/6
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/7
2560 x 1600 Enthusiast 4x AA
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) - 31.1
HD 7950 (900 Mhz) - 34.4
GTX 680 (1058 boost) - 30.8
From the GTX 680 review
"While Crysis was a strong game for the GTX 580, the same cannot be said of the GTX 680. NVIDIA is off to a very poor start here, with the Radeon HD 7970 easily outperforming the GTX 680, and even the 7950 is tied or nearly tied with the GTX 680 depending on the resolution. On the bright side the GTX 680 does manage to outperform the GTX 580, but only by a relatively meager 17%.

Given the large gap in theoretical performance between the GTX 680 and GTX 580, as it turns out we’ve run into one of the few scenarios where the GTX 680 doesn’t improve on the GTX 580: memory bandwidth. In our overclocking results we discovered that a core overclock had almost no impact on Crysis, whereas a memory overclock improved performance by 8%, almost exactly as much as the memory overclock itself. "
a HD 7950 OC (1150+) will be much faster than a GTX 680 OC (1250+) given HD 7950 scales better because its not bandwidth constrained.
These 2 games clearly illustrate that the GTX 600 cards are bandwidth constrained. I wouldn't want to spend USD 400 on a high end card which is bandwidth constrained in games today. In future you will come across more such scenarios. GTX 670 will be more power efficient. But that is at the cost being bandwidth constrained in the most demanding games. Mostly it depends on how you look at things.
Maybe you prefer power efficiency. But I don't want to be constrained smile.gif

Did the OP state he was going to overclock? 7950's overclocks aren't guaranteed. He might get a bad chip and it'll overclock horribly.

My point being stock for stock the 670 manhandles the 7950

1336636802OhmufU4CHj_7_3.gif
1336636802OhmufU4CHj_7_5.gif

For the same money going with a 7950 is a bad move
post #28 of 35
If you don't mind paying an extra £40, you can grab a Sapphire HD 7870 here. It is about 10% faster than a 6970, for 20% more in price (compared to that MSI one), but it uses less power, and these 7870 cards are amazing overclockers. However if you really can't spare an extra £40, then the 6970 is the one to get.
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post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

I guess Im gonna have to admit that I was wro.....wron.......mistaken. I didnt realize the 7850 could overclock quite so well and that it came to life as much as it did with the overclock. So Ill have to suck it up and say that the 7850 does look to be the better card if youre willing to do some overclocking.
Now that being said, do you have to have a non-reference card in order to overclock it this much? My Sapphire 5870 is reference and so the voltage is locked and I cant change it which means I cant overclock it much at all. My old 4850 I could overclock it like mad with stock voltage but my 5870, not hardly at all. How does this work with the 7850's?

All 7850's have V control. Some cards have it locked after 1.225v. The Asus is the only one who allows up to 1.3v but you can flash all of the cards to it to unlock the extra voltage.

If only the 7870 was cheaper.
post #30 of 35
^Agreed, the price gap between 7850 and 7870 is insane. It was only a $60 gap between 6850 and 6870, which was reasonable; $100 gap is insane, considering the price gap between 7870 and 7950 is only $40-50, and there's a 40% difference in SP's, whereas 7850 to 7870 only has a 20% difference in SP's (off-topic, are they still called SP's now that it's GCN, or is it "GCN cores"?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunMetal View Post

This might be a silly question but is there any chance that a 7850 can run on a 2GB RAM system (I know 4GB is the minimum).
I'mma buy it next week but I got a bit short in cash and I'm just too excited to wait another more payroll. tongue.gif

7850 can definitely run with 2GB of RAM, BUT it's going to be hard to run a game with just 2GB of system RAM. If you only have the 1 game open, and a page file, you can get by. If you have empty RAM slots, you should be able to find 1GB DDR3 sticks used for cheap, like $5; 4GB is a good amount although 3GB is sufficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post

I guess Im gonna have to admit that I was wro.....wron.......mistaken. I didnt realize the 7850 could overclock quite so well and that it came to life as much as it did with the overclock. So Ill have to suck it up and say that the 7850 does look to be the better card if youre willing to do some overclocking.
Now that being said, do you have to have a non-reference card in order to overclock it this much? My Sapphire 5870 is reference and so the voltage is locked and I cant change it which means I cant overclock it much at all. My old 4850 I could overclock it like mad with stock voltage but my 5870, not hardly at all. How does this work with the 7850's?

At stock voltage, the 1050mhz core clock seems like a given for a reference card, at least from most tests. 1100-1150 seems like a decent "average overclocker" overclock, maybe with mild voltage bump, and 1200-1250 if you want to push it hard. Meaning negligible temp changes, etc. The performance scaling while overclocked is also great, much better than 6000 series. I personally would recommend OP to get something like a MSi Twin Frozr II 7850 because the heatsink is really good; but almost all 7850's are non-reference models, and they're all within ~$10 of ref model MSRP.
Edited by jrbroad77 - 5/20/12 at 1:30pm
 
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