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Asus Z9PE-D8 Owner's thread - Page 19

post #181 of 2450
I would first like to thank you very much for your post - really complete, competent and accurate - in the suggestions and explanations. Thank you for your valuable time that you gave me! Below I have highlighted my answers / comments to what you wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyE View Post

I do have 2 ASUS systems Z9PE-D16 and Z9PE-D8 with 2x E5-2660 and 2xE5-2687W which i regularily change in between. Main memory is 256GB and 128 GB respectively, ECC 1600MHz.

To your questions:
1) The Q-Codes are listed in the manual and provide at least a solution to know until when the POST run ok. Good that the system is now starting
A good summary for initial boot issues:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-post-boot-video-problems

Thanks. Unfortunately the manual does not always provide detailed explanations about the codes, and many of them are not even listed.....mad.gif

2) If memory is "missing" then the first thing I would do is to reset the CMOS memory. Potentially, in trying to get the system starting, you changed essential settings and impacted this part of POST

Well, I changed a lot of settings, but only after every try @ default settings was useless. Anyway I resetted the CMOS in many occasions and this sometimes has solved the issues.

3) ME is the Intel Management Engine which is part of Intels vPro offering. Basically it is a small computer on the motherboard supervising the operation of the system, even if the main CPUs are turned off - i.e. you can remotely start the Asus MB via this mechanism

Thank you!: I was not able to find on the Internet such a simple & clear explanation!

4) With default CMOS settings, the MB shows the tarbet base frequency, which is in your case 3100MHz. If perf mode and similar things are changed, it could be different (haven't personally tried it)

As explained in my first post, the BIOS automatically sets the CPUs speed @1200 MHZ when I power up the system.
While this is perfectly fine to me when the system is posting, I was wondering if under Windows enviroment it is still normal that the CPU's speed remains at 1200 MHZ @ idle. wth.gif
Of course when the CPUs are loaded with something to do, they increase the frequency till the maximum as expected. thumb.gif


5) This is normaly behavior. Even if the workload of AIDA, HWInfo etc is not big, you are executing software on your system. There is no hard affinity between the executing thread in an application abnd the physical core in the socket - shows up as a kind of random pattern. Benchmark software potentiall wakes up the CPU to get the timing operation right. I would *only* be concerned, if the system with good benchmark software under load would not go to either 3100MHz or better 3400 MHz (depending on your cooler). 3400 MHZ is the max frequency for all cores in Turbo mode. For 1-2 core under load the speed can go up to 3800 MHz. Good benchmark software for such a system is Intel's Linpack, be more critical of the results of the usual known benchmark apps - they are not optimized for NUMA boards like yours.

Ok, you should be right. The strange thing is that I initially had not noticed this behavior, and it seemed to me that HWInfo64 (for ex.) always showed the frequency of all cores at 1200 MHz (of course @ idle), without sudden surges in frequency & voltage and activation of the turbo as is currently the case..... blinksmiley.gif

6)
Memory amount: This is normal
Memory is used for all kind of things like I/O devices are mapped into physical memory space. Some utilities see one POV, some have other approaches. 48 MB difference look like a PCI express card is mapped into memory space.

Thanks! I did not know this possibility, and this may be the case indeed! Sometime it shows 32720 MB, some other 32718MB but I cannot determine why it changes or I don't remember: maybe the times when I tryed to put the video card in others slots just to check system stability or attempting to solve issues.

The strange thing though is that if I put the sticks on socket 1 only (either 1 or all 4 sticks), every utility (also CPU-Z) shows the correct values ​​without even a single "lost" MB.

Also the same happens if I put two sticks on socket1 and the others two on socket 2 but on DIMM "G" & H" instead of "E" & F" as the manual reccomend. What do you think? And, if I keep the sticks on the "wrong" DIMM ("G" & H") can I experience some instability or random issues/performance loss?

I did some tests and benchmarks: does not seem that there are substantial differences in performance if I put the sticks on the "wrong" DIMM, but maybe I need some deeper analysis. Please also note that I can even put all four sticks on socket 1 leaving CPU2 without memory on socket2 and still I get QuadChannel mode!

But I suspect that I can not use this setting....what do you think? This might damage the hardware? Or simply in some circumstances may occur performance loss due to the lack of memory on socket2? (QPI issues,etc.)


4 x 8 GB memory is a suboptimal configuration for this system. One of the reasons for a dual socket MB is a the increased bandwidth you might get. In this configuration the 16 cores of the 2xE5-2687W will starve for memory bandwidth to achive their regular performance. Basically, you run the 8 core socket with the memory bandwidth of a 4 core i7-3770. Either switch to 8x4 GB or 8x8GB.

You are right. I was misled by an Asus "technician" who told me that I could get the "Quad Channel mode" with just 4 sticks and that it was preferable to use 8GB sticks instead of 4GB (for performace, OC,etc.).

However, this is true ONLY if you use a single CPU and then you put all the 4 sticks on socket1.

Evidently the "technician" did not know that with 2 CPUs things are different and you can not keep the "Quad Channe mode" anymore, having to distribute the 4 sticks on the two sockets devil.gif

This way the system cannot go beyond "Dual Channel mode".

Also, if I put just one stick on socket1 and another one on socket2, they run in "Single Channel mode" - no matter the DIMM I chose to put them in. mad.gif Is this normal? I cannot achieve Dual Channel unless I put in all four sticks? I ask because this seems odd to me and I wonder if this may be a sign that something is wrong.....sadsmiley.gif


To identify possible errors, I'd start with one populated socket, and go with 1 RAM DIMM and start there. Run the system under load for a few hours (linpack i.e.) and check the stability in its minimal config. Move from there by adding more memory Dimms to one socket. If all goes well, THEN add the second. If problems arise, change back to a single socket config with the "faulty" CPU and re-check stability. If stability is there, your setup might have been screwed for dual socket ops (or one CPU is indeed defect. Clear the CMOS and re-check with 2 sockets.

I already did as you reccomend! Just 1 RAM stick, etc. All sort of bech, stress test,etc. The RAM seem absolutely ok. Anyway the system seems stable but I will try Linpack as you suggest.

As said, many classic benchmark utilities are "confused" with NUMA systems or if the performance goes in regions beyond the design of the software. Some of them get actual slower (as data has to be moved via the QPI interconnect and there are WAY too many cores to choose from. Software which does not explicitly control the mapping of threads and memory to the indivual sockets and cores, will never achieve top performance on a 32 core NUMA system. Most benchmark utilities are not written in this way, which regularily might people belief that the single socket system gives more bang for the buck. This is correct if the assessement is done with these kind of software, it is not correct with properly developed software.

Thanks for the explanation!!!

This is especially true for memory bandwidth performance checks .Your decline might come from the utility's inability to properly understand your topology. Check with stream benchmark. A system with 1600MHz memory should be in the 80 GB/sec range

Well, 80 GB/sec is true for system equipped with 64GB or more (like yours!).

Indeed, I read some reviews about a system like mine with 64GB where the bandwidth was 90 or more GB/sec.

In my system however, I have just 32GB and according to Sandra the bandwidth is around 45 GB/sec, which I think should be completely satisfactory - at least according to the researchs I've done (comparing performances on similar systems ,etc.)


7)
Q-Code 22: haven't checked with the Z9PE-D8, but the Z9PE-D16 displays 22 as normal system value in operation

Thanks! Yes, I found a couple of days ago on Asus Z9PE-D8 offcial forum a post where another user said he asked directly to the Asus technical service and they replied that "code 22" is absolutely normal when BIOS POST is done and Windows take over. cheers.gif

General questions:
Have you really checked that your power supply is delivering stable performance on the 12V CPU socket supplies? Did you change the connectors? The frequent uncoordinated reboots could lead into this direction.
Just to make sure I asked: Do you use retail versions of E5-2687W or engineering samples (ES)? If the latter, many of the issues could be from this choice.

My PSU is one of the best (I personally think the best) available on the market in terms of quality and stability (among other things): of course I checked the voltages regulations and they are rock solid, with a fluctuation of a mere 0,001-0,005 V on CPUs.

All the others voltages are "paralyzed" (BIOS monitor).

My CPUs are retail.


P.S.: which BIOS version do you use?

THANKS!!!
Edited by TheBlackHole - 5/7/13 at 3:29am
post #182 of 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackHole View Post

I would first like to thank you very much for your post - really complete, competent and accurate - in the suggestions and explanations. Thank you for your valuable time that you gave me! Below I have highlighted my answers / comments to what you wrote.
THANKS!!!
You are welcome.

I got my first dual SB system a few months ago and I am still learning how to better optimize it for different workloads - more on that later.

Some further comments to your points:

1) After I wrote my initial comment on your original post I saw that you tried multiple approaches. #1 priority in testing is to get reproducible errors. If errors aren't reproducible, then they can't be fixed reliably (exceptions apply)

2) ok
3) ok
4) I would not get too deep on this representation. The important thing is: Does your system perform as expected when under load and does it save energy when there is no load, Everything in between isn't black and white anymore, there are many shades of gray possible. If Windows is reporting 1200 MHZ at idle than I would consider this normal (my system does this as well). BTW, if your don't have one yet, try to get one of those cheap power meters to see what the power consumption of your system is.With 2 CPUs and 8 DIMMs, a good PSU but no PCI cards plugged in, the power consumption at the wall outlet should be well below 100 watt when the system is idle. HWInfo64's display of the 8 cores (The scket has to be selected) has usually this kind of sporadic peaks to 3100, 3400 or up to 3800 MHz. Any modern operating system has tens of processes working in the background. Usually dormant, those services wake up and do some processing. Nothing serious, just housekeeping stuff. From an energy optimization perspective it is better for the OS to crank up the frequency of the respective core for this work to be finished asap to get the system earlier down back in low power mode vs. running these tasks at 1200 MHz.

5+6) As said, different utilities might use different views. If the very same utility reports different mem sizes without any HW change than this would be suspect, everything else is rather a SW dependency how some data is being read and interpreted. An important table during boot-up is the SRAT (System Resource Affinity Table) which describes in pedantic detail the topology of the system so that operating systems like Windows or Linux can understand what the architecture of this system is and adjust appropriately during startup.

On your benchmarking exercise and not seeing a huge difference:
Beware of benchmarks. The "Art" of benchmarking is way more complex than most benchmarking communities go into. Some points:

a) Does this particular benchmark reflect the applications you are going to use? It doesn't make sense to see the 330 GFlops of floating point performance your dual E5-2687W are capable of if you will never run an app with floating point data

b) What is the memory footprint and the memory access pattern of the benchmark? If your benchmark checks the CPU datapath only, then it might fit into level-1 (and potentially level-2) cache hierarchy to exploit all the speed you can get. If the benchmark needs more memory - let's say 16 MB - then all can fit in level-3 cache. BTW, level 3 cache is managed by the uncore part of your E5-2687W, level 1+2 is managed by the respective cores. Extending this model further: As long as all these benchmark fit into your cache, then the memory architecture, configuration and performance is more or less irrelevant. It isn't used anyway.

c) If you take an app with a significant memory footprint (i.e 4 GB), the config of your memory becomes more likely a critical component for good performance. A good paper for SB memory configuration is here. It is written by Fujitsu, but applies to your Asus MB likewise (link)

d) benchmarking is at an inflection point. Until now, most performance improvements came from ILP (instruction level parallelism) and frequency gains. This gave the SW community for many decades a free ride to take benefit of increased performance without touching their software. This period is over. Going forward applications have to know and need to be explicitly programmed to leverage further increases via data parallel, task parallel and thread parallel approaches. Apps which haven't been designed in that way, won't show what your system is really capable of. So, say goodby to many familiar benchmarks and say welcome to the world of parallelism.

e) Your point on QPI: Depending on the type of memory allocation of the application and the memory access pattern, the QPI link might only be used to send infrequent status updates from one half of the system to the other or it becomes a critical bottleneck if the memory access pattern requires frequent access from memory connected to the other socket (i.e. when sorting data). If your applications has a kind of "pulse" pattern for the QPI, your system might benefit that you turn off energy savings mode for the QPI interconnect (wake up times are relatively long)

f) Your system is capable of supporting 8 memory channels and the minimum memory size for full memory performance with 1600 MHz Dimms is 16 GB (i.e. 8 x 2GB Kingston ECC DDR3 for 25 USD each). With this config your memory speed is in the 80 GB/sec range (measured with STREAM). The reason you will find higher transfer rates in some apps is the difference in memory access patterns. Depending on the memory pattern the applications use to access the Dimms, many optimizations are possible (rank interlave, dimm interleave, page access, sequential). These are independent (complementary) to the CL settings many here are optimizing their systems around. Even with the best CL times (i.e. 5-5-5-10) data transfer speed is well below its optimal speed if the application has the wrong access pattern. With a 1600 MHz Dimm, the theoretical upper bound is 12.8 GB/s. Expect everything from 3 to 11 GB/s on practical performance - the application design is much more relevant than CL optimizations.

7) ok

General comments)
PSU: In an attempt to identify an error or misbehavior, you are quite fast in excluding potential causes.
a) Your sample might be faulty
b) the cable from the PSU to the MB might have a contact issue
c) the plugs of these cables on the PSU or MB might have some transient issues
d) etc.
The reason I write this is that it happened to me a while ago. My PSU (Enermax 1500 W) was working fine, but one of the CPU 12V connectors didn't fit perfectly on the MB. Consequence: many irregular reboots of the system, under load, without load, etc ...

I am using the latest BIOS on both boards

cheers,
Andy
Edited by AndyE - 5/7/13 at 7:31am
post #183 of 2450
Do you guys think two of these would work on the Z9PE-D16/2L with the latest bios?
post #184 of 2450
Thread Starter 
2 of what? I know mose B0 work on the non .cap bioses of the Asus boards including the server board you listed and I believe Z9PA-D8 as well.
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post #185 of 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by motogplvr View Post

Do you guys think two of these would work on the Z9PE-D16/2L with the latest bios?
If you refer to the E5-2687W's ? I am running them on a Z9PE-D16 (the one with 4 x GBit LAN ports)
post #186 of 2450
**** BIOS UPDATE RELEASED *****

well .. 4 days ago

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z9PED8_WS/#support_Download_36
Quote:
Version 3506
Description Z9PE-D8 WS Formal BIOS 3506 release
1. Fix the issue of that system can't boot to OS after using HighPoint 2720/4320 RAID card to build RAID.
2. Patch NVIDIA VGA card, K5000.
3. Add Network Stack related options in BIOS setup.
4. Fix FAN contorl abnormal after resume from S3.

[Warning]
*If your BIOS version is 0703 or older: Go to BIOS-Utilities to download and flash the BIOS to version 3109 firstly before updating the BIOS.
File Size 3,9 MBytesupdate 2013.05.07
Download from Global


YES .. hopefully this fixes some of the issues we've been having. I hope my resume problem is fixed in #4 .. darn FAN contorl LOL wink.gif .. I may also be indirectly affected by the problem of #2 where it doesn't initialize the VGA space properly. After a few months of testing, even for me, I've found that occasionally either the GTX570 OR the AMD 7870 isn't detected on boot. rolleyes.gif


I guess I'll be the guinea pig. Anyone else that is brave enough, please try and report back the good or bad. I've been waiting for this for such a long, long time, I really hope I can go forward with better stability. It's ironic that I was over looking at the supermicro boards, then said "I really just need a good bios update for the z9" .. checked again and finally it was there .. eek.gif
Edited by lloyd mcclendon - 5/11/13 at 8:13pm
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post #187 of 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

2 of what? I know mose B0 work on the non .cap bioses of the Asus boards including the server board you listed and I believe Z9PA-D8 as well.

sorry my link didn't work...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290910828818

This auction states they have tested these with the Z9PE-D16/2L and .cap bios 3401 (see pictures in the auction). I sent them a message and they verified this is the case, so it seems that these B0 QA8X ES cpus will work with the .cap bios.

I bought two and a Z9PE-D16/2L so hopefully everything goes smoothly.

post #188 of 2450
well I've flashed the bios, luckily it did not brick the system and it still boots normally. smile.gif

however, suspend / resume still does not work mad.gifmad.gifmad.gif, my usb keyboard still does not work in the bios mad.gif

unsure if the vga card detection problem is resolved or not, time will tell
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post #189 of 2450
Thread Starter 
Which board and which CPUs?
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mushkin Triactor 240GB EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi TFC XChanger 360 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Koolance RP452X2 Swiftech MCP-655 Corsair SP120 "QE" Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
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openSUSE Leap 42.1 x64 Dell U2412M Dell U2412M Acer P241W-d 
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Ducky 1008 w/ Cherry MX Blue Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 1.5kW Silverstone Raven RV01B-W Microsoft Sidewinder X5 
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Asus Xonar DX Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium AudioEngine A2 (2.0) Wacom Intuos Pen & Touch 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600K @5.2  MSI MPower Z77 GeForce GTX 470 Corsair Vengeance 2000MHz C10 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Spinpoint F1 XSPC Raystorm EK Spin Bay Res Clear mcp-350 (ddc1) 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
XSPC EX120 XSPC EX240 openSUSE 12.3 x64 elementaryOS 0.3 (Freya) x64 
PowerCase
Corsair TX750 750W Lian Li A05NB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel C2Q Q9550 Asus P5G41C-M LX GeForce GTX 470 Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate LP 500GB Crucial M4 128GB WD Red 2TB WD Red 4TB 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Scythe Big Shuriken w/ Silverstone Suscool 121 Windows 10 Home x64 Sony Bravia KDL-37EX500 Antec TP650 New 
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Lian Li V351B Silverstone Suscool 121 120mm case fans 
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post #190 of 2450
Thread Starter 
I have the board but only a Corsair TX750. Can you power the board with a single EPS connector and the 4 pin molex or do you need to power the second EPS as well (what is the function of the 4pin plug actually?). Also are there molex to EPS cables?

Pernod
(28 items)
 
Oleo
(14 items)
 
The Sidewinder
(18 items)
 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Intel Xeon E5-4650 Intel Xeon E5-4650 Asus Z9PE-D8 WS GeForce GTX 780 Ti 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum Samsung Spinpoint F3 2TB Sandisk Ultra 64GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
mushkin Triactor 240GB EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi TFC XChanger 360 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Koolance RP452X2 Swiftech MCP-655 Corsair SP120 "QE" Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
openSUSE Leap 42.1 x64 Dell U2412M Dell U2412M Acer P241W-d 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1008 w/ Cherry MX Blue Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 1.5kW Silverstone Raven RV01B-W Microsoft Sidewinder X5 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Asus Xonar DX Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium AudioEngine A2 (2.0) Wacom Intuos Pen & Touch 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600K @5.2  MSI MPower Z77 GeForce GTX 470 Corsair Vengeance 2000MHz C10 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Spinpoint F1 XSPC Raystorm EK Spin Bay Res Clear mcp-350 (ddc1) 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
XSPC EX120 XSPC EX240 openSUSE 12.3 x64 elementaryOS 0.3 (Freya) x64 
PowerCase
Corsair TX750 750W Lian Li A05NB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel C2Q Q9550 Asus P5G41C-M LX GeForce GTX 470 Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate LP 500GB Crucial M4 128GB WD Red 2TB WD Red 4TB 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Scythe Big Shuriken w/ Silverstone Suscool 121 Windows 10 Home x64 Sony Bravia KDL-37EX500 Antec TP650 New 
CaseOther
Lian Li V351B Silverstone Suscool 121 120mm case fans 
  hide details  
Reply
Pernod
(28 items)
 
Oleo
(14 items)
 
The Sidewinder
(18 items)
 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Intel Xeon E5-4650 Intel Xeon E5-4650 Asus Z9PE-D8 WS GeForce GTX 780 Ti 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 4 x 4GB Corsair Dominator Platinum Samsung Spinpoint F3 2TB Sandisk Ultra 64GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
mushkin Triactor 240GB EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi EK Supremacy Nickel/Plexi TFC XChanger 360 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Koolance RP452X2 Swiftech MCP-655 Corsair SP120 "QE" Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
openSUSE Leap 42.1 x64 Dell U2412M Dell U2412M Acer P241W-d 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1008 w/ Cherry MX Blue Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 1.5kW Silverstone Raven RV01B-W Microsoft Sidewinder X5 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Asus Xonar DX Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium AudioEngine A2 (2.0) Wacom Intuos Pen & Touch 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600K @5.2  MSI MPower Z77 GeForce GTX 470 Corsair Vengeance 2000MHz C10 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Spinpoint F1 XSPC Raystorm EK Spin Bay Res Clear mcp-350 (ddc1) 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
XSPC EX120 XSPC EX240 openSUSE 12.3 x64 elementaryOS 0.3 (Freya) x64 
PowerCase
Corsair TX750 750W Lian Li A05NB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel C2Q Q9550 Asus P5G41C-M LX GeForce GTX 470 Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate LP 500GB Crucial M4 128GB WD Red 2TB WD Red 4TB 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Scythe Big Shuriken w/ Silverstone Suscool 121 Windows 10 Home x64 Sony Bravia KDL-37EX500 Antec TP650 New 
CaseOther
Lian Li V351B Silverstone Suscool 121 120mm case fans 
  hide details  
Reply
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