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Raid Question (Not a build) Cable management specific.

post #1 of 34
6/4/12 at 4:02pm
Thread Starter 
Hello all you home server folk!

So searching through OCN, i've noticed no one really talks about raid cards in their home system builds. But even more specifically, how they cable manage their raid cables & drives. I'm coming up to my 6th build on my own and im interested in using a raid card this time. But, no one has them on the intel build forums. So i've come here to ask you server guys.

1) I know there are some benefits to running an independent raid card. But are their benefits i don't know about? (feel free to elaborate)

2) Do you know of a good example on a system build (im still combing the forums) using a mid/full tower with a raid card setup? (cable management more then anything)

3) As a home system what should i avoid getting? Raid 10 (storage) Raid 0 (OS) I figured the OS backup is well enough for what i want to do.


Thanks for looking. Feel free to call red flags and criticize.

-T
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post #2 of 34
6/5/12 at 8:45am
RAID cards are for RAID 5 and 6. If all you seek is 0, 1, 01, or 10, just get an HBA and let the OS handle that. I don't know any examples of any ricey cable management for these kinds of builds, because people tend to build servers to work, not to look pretty.
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post #3 of 34
6/5/12 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

RAID cards are for RAID 5 and 6. If all you seek is 0, 1, 01, or 10, just get an HBA and let the OS handle that. I don't know any examples of any ricey cable management for these kinds of builds, because people tend to build servers to work, not to look pretty.


Don't really think of it as "nicely/or pretty", Think of it as neat and economically "tidy". For the best possible air flow through the system. Ill have to read up on HBA's, I always figured them as SAN optic cards. Never thought of them as an internal solution to raid. Why would you say raid cards are primarily for raid 5/6? I just want to take my raid solution off my MB and isolate it to a PCI-E/PCI solution. (since i've never done it at home before) Am I being redundant? and there is no benefit?
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post #4 of 34
6/5/12 at 9:34am
RAID cards are mainly used for RAID 5 and 6, and a large number of drives. No one generally uses them for 0, 1, or any nesting of those because it requires no processing power and can be handled in software. There's zero point to tidying up cables these days for airflow. These aren't the days of 2-inch wide ribbon cables. Since you're only talking about 10 and 0, there is zero point for you to get a RAID card. If you need more drives, get an HBA or some simple card with SATA ports, and handle this "RAID" in software.
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post #5 of 34
6/5/12 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
But still "fake" RAID still doesn't see the numbers that lets say "hardware" raid gets with lets say LSI 9280/9260. And in my opinion a tidy system is still better then chaos ribbon system. I still want my airflow. saying we don't have 2" ribbons is not acceptable debating factor. I have vrm's/caps that want air on the x79 platform.
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post #6 of 34
6/5/12 at 12:57pm
Why not? Hardware RAID is not really any different. It's basically just its own computer that handles RAID. The CPUs are paltry in comparison to a CPU you would use in an actual computer. You can hit just as good of numbers in software RAID these days as you can with a RAID card. I will repeat this again, if all you're doing is level 0, 1, or any nested versions of those, there is ZERO point in buying a RAID card.

Not having ricey wiring isn't going to make your airflow better. VRMs and capacitors are cooled by CPU-cooler air. Their placement is on purpose, and they are supposed to be cooled by the airflow of stock CPU coolers, or aftermarket coolers that are designed by people who know how to read specs and design things. It's not "messy" wiring that's hurting any cooling of those components, it's using a ricey cooler that doesn't meet the design specs of that CPU socket. I never have those components overheat, and the only fans in my system are a CPU fan and a PSU fan (which never runs because I simply don't put any load on it) because I either use a stock CPU cooler or one that blows down towards those components. These tower coolers are retarded. The ribbon cable thing is a totally acceptable angle for a debate, you just don't want a debate. You've made up your mind based on anecdotal evidence and using cool-looking cheap overpriced ricey parts.
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post #7 of 34
6/5/12 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
Well you're pretty presumptuous as to think i had an air cooler planed for this system. Reading through Raid builds on OCN and other forums, a lot of people have seen 20-60% faster Bock R/W depending on block size (Hardware vs software). So i don't see your validation in saying their is NO point.

2nd of all criticizing others on "ricey" (which isn't a word i can define) component installation, is no way to help me understand how to cable manage a raid card (which has prob. been done.) . Last time i checked VRM's on the X79 Platform like running pretty toasty.

Your argument:

No benefit. (wrong)
Cable management does not help cool your system (wrong)
Ricey (not a word pertaining to anything this conversation is about unless you're making a racial slander against people of rice?)
You criticize cheap parts and knowledge against me, but you have no clue what my build is. You've made a lot of assumptions, no facts, no justification. Posted nothing, concluding your statements. And by the posts you've made in other threads you're a rather trolling individual.

Ramicio: if you have facts, share them. If not go troll somewhere else. In no way have you contributed.
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post #8 of 34
6/5/12 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

RAID cards are for RAID 5 and 6. If all you seek is 0, 1, 01, or 10, just get an HBA and let the OS handle that. I don't know any examples of any ricey cable management for these kinds of builds, because people tend to build servers to work, not to look pretty.

RAID 5 and 6 are just for bulk data storage with usually 14+ drives. You really don't want to use it for anything but a giant SAN. RAID 10 has much better redundancy and performance. Using as few as 4 drives, it also makes sense at the kind of scale you would find in a consumer rig.

As for cable management, you can't beat a single SFF-8087 cable. It's 4 SAS links in one cable. Just hook that one cable up to a SAS backplane and you've got yourself some hot-swap tray action. Most backplanes use 2 SATA or Molex power connectors. SAS, by the way, is also backward compatible with SATA! Make sure your controller card works with SATA III though, as most 6Gb/sec SAS controllers will run SATA in "2" mode. This will be much more elegent than any solution with 4 SATA cables and 4 power cables. There are HDD cages that have such backplanes, fit into 3 X 5.25in slots, and will hold 4-5 3.5in HDDs. Hope that helps....
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post #9 of 34
6/5/12 at 1:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomK View Post

RAID 5 and 6 are just for bulk data storage with usually 14+ drives. You really don't want to use it for anything but a giant SAN. RAID 10 has much better redundancy and performance. Using as few as 4 drives, it also makes sense at the kind of scale you would find in a consumer rig.
As for cable management, you can't beat a single SFF-8087 cable. It's 4 SAS links in one cable. Just hook that one cable up to a SAS backplane and you've got yourself some hot-swap tray action. Most backplanes use 2 SATA or Molex power connectors. SAS, by the way, is also backward compatible with SATA! Make sure your controller card works with SATA III though, as most 6Gb/sec SAS controllers will run SATA in "2" mode. This will be much more elegent than any solution with 4 SATA cables and 4 power cables. There are HDD cages that have such backplanes, fit into 3 X 5.25in slots, and will hold 4-5 3.5in HDDs. Hope that helps....

Yeah it does a bit. Now i can look to find that cable and see if they make one long enough to route around/hide.

Thanks again RandomK. Most help by far.

-T
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post #10 of 34
6/5/12 at 2:13pm
Sure thing, and oh yes they come long enough. In fact, I've never seen one that was less than 36in long! Servers tend to be large, but I've always wanted to find shorter ones. Trust me, that won't be an issue at all.
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