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Razer Taipan - Page 20

post #191 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

The Taipan should have a flashable EE design for firmware updates.. Maybe a potential accel fix in the future, but I have no time frame.

If it is neccessary. ^^

That is the Review I already posted. ^^

The custompc one.

Two other Guys hanging around here and gonna review the taipan with testunits also and both alreay told us that they noticed no accel with the taipan.

We we will read or see it in the full reviews of them.
post #192 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by mousefan View Post

If it is neccessary. ^^
That is the Review I already posted. ^^
The custompc one.
Two other Guys hanging around here and gonna review the taipan with testunits also and both alreay told us that they noticed no accel with the taipan.
We we will read or see it in the full reviews of them.

Marketing units ^^

And no offense to the reviewers, but I have a few external sources on the status of this specific sensor architecture. Razer is a special case, but it's something that's been discussed and battled with the primary manufacturer.
post #193 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by mousefan View Post

See, another Guy, another Tester and the things look different again.
You know what? I mean as a Mauscrack who knows something about negative or positive Accel, you surely would love it to have a Mouse without it.
But to be serious. There will be at least 60 to 80 % of the Customers, which don't even know anything about positive or negative Accel, and some of them already played with a Laser of the first Generation build in the very first Lachesis for example like a young God, without noticing anything wrong with the Sensor until somebody told them about it.
I mean, sure it would be cool to have a perfect one build in the Taipan, but we'll see.
Looking forward to further Results EnthusiastR. thumbsup
Because of Quality the Taipan looks damn fresh and a excellent Sensor would be important and the cream on the Cake ofcourse.

Well the first generation Lachesis was bloody brilliant when kept dust free and used on a hard surface as soft surfaces made it jittery when clicking the buttons. The tracking itself was amazingly precise with absolutely zero positive acceleration and no negative acceleration up until very high movement speeds. To resolve the clicking induced jitter on soft surfaces, they added that dynamic DPI scaling later on in some Mamba firmware update and included it into each PTE mouse they released since then... basically crippling their precision.

Anyways people should realize this: If you want the highest precision at higher DPI settings without correction, jittering etc. the PTE sensors (without that dynamic DPI scaling activated) are the way to go as they are unparalleled to date. But only in conjunction with a hard surface. That's what their marketing strategies should have mentioned in order to avoid that bad reputation. These sensors are god knows no way perfect. They have their issues like z-axis tracking, making them prone to soft surfaces or vibrations and are also more prone to dust (so you have to clean them from time to time). But used in the right environment they are - and I have to repeat myself - unparalleled in terms of precision.



Which brings me to the Taipan:
This one review mentions a little negative acceleration. Now when you remember the performance of the ADNS-9500 (and 9800 I guess) it was that artificial nonlinear positive acceleration that was bugging most people. Yes the 9500 had negative acceleration in combination with some surfaces, which means they couldn't track them well and therefore you didn't have to move your mouse too fast in order to make them reach negative acceleration. Coupled with the proper surface negative acceleration didn't show at all until extremely high movement speeds, you would never achieve when gaming. So the 9500 never had a persistent negative accel issue - it was just in combination with a few mousepads and as far as I know the 9800 resolved the issues with some of these pads.

Nonetheless both of them had persistent positive acceleration no matter on which pad they were used on. So to remind you not one from the people who had the Taipan review units, was stating that it had any positive accel. In fact only the one review so far mentioned any acceleration and this was about negative accel and he specifically tested for these issues. Now what does that tell us?

As the ADNS-9818 used in the Taipan is still based on the 9800, he might have tested the mouse on one of those surfaces that might not mate well with that kind of sensor, so this behavior would be expected in that case. The other thing is that he didn't mention the method he tested for the negative acceleration exactly. And I'm pretty sure he did it like the user posting in this thread before, meaning he did a fast swipe in one direction and a slow swipe back. So he could have done that fast swipe so fast that he surpassed the perfect tracking speed of that sensor. And voilá: negative acceleration (as expected). And as I just said coupled with a pad the 9500 & 9800 are known to track less than optimal and you hit that perfect tracking speed barrier even faster... so he could have noticed some negative acceleration without even having to try too hard to swipe the mouse extremely fast.

So what I'm trying to say here is that nothing is lost yet. The persistent positive acceleration was the thing that was bugging these sensors (9500/9800) and no one from the testers mentioned these issues with the Taipan (actually some even specifically denied it). So while I'm still skeptical until I hold one of these in my own hands I haven't written them off yet and neither should you until there's actually someone really reporting and proofing that there's positive acceleration.
Edited by MONVMENTVM - 6/28/12 at 3:58pm
post #194 of 840
@mousefan - it looks as if there may be a very slight negative accel. Let my first comment be an illustration of how minor and hard to notice it really is. I only had a couple mins to jump in and try it so I'm going to try tonight to sit down and thoroughly test it. Based on what Skylit has mentioned, we may see Razer push an update to fix it.

Edit - @MONVMENTVM - That's the procedure I used to test it. PM'in you now, I want to get this mouse tested correctly.

Thanks,
George K
Edited by EnthusiastR - 6/28/12 at 4:05pm
post #195 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

Well the first generation Lachesis was bloody brilliant when kept dust free and used on a hard surface as soft surfaces made it jittery when clicking the buttons. The tracking itself was amazingly precise with absolutely zero positive acceleration and no negative acceleration up until very high movement speeds. To resolve the clicking induced jitter on soft surfaces, they added that dynamic DPI scaling later on in some Mamba firmware update and included it into each PTE mouse they released since then... basically crippling their precision.
Anyways people should realize this: If you want the highest precision at higher DPI settings without correction, jittering etc. the PTE sensors (without that dynamic DPI scaling activated) are the way to go as they are unparalleled to date. But only in conjunction with a hard surface. That's what their marketing strategies should have mentioned in order to avoid that bad reputation. These sensors are god knows no way perfect. They have their issues like z-axis tracking, making them prone to soft surfaces or vibrations and are also more prone to dust (so you have to clean them from time to time). But used in the right environment they are - and I have to repeat myself - unparalleled in terms of precision.
Which brings me to the Taipan:
This one review mentions a little negative acceleration. Now when you remember the performance of the ADNS-9500 (and 9800 I guess) it was that artificial nonlinear positive acceleration that was bugging most people. Yes the 9500 had negative acceleration in combination with some surfaces, which means they couldn't track them well and therefore you didn't have to move your mouse too fast in order to make them reach negative acceleration. Coupled with the proper surface negative acceleration didn't show at all until extremely high movement speeds, you would never achieve when gaming. So the 9500 never had a persistent negative accel issue - it was just in combination with a few mousepads and as far as I know the 9800 resolved the issues with some of these pads.
Nonetheless both of them had persistent positive acceleration no matter on which pad they were used on. So to remind you not one from the people who had the Taipan review units, was stating that it had any positive accel. In fact only the one review so far mentioned any acceleration and this was about negative accel and he specifically tested for these issues. Now what does that tell us?
As the ADNS-9818 used in the Taipan is still based on the 9800, he might have tested the mouse on one of those surfaces that might not mate well with that kind of sensor, so this behavior would be expected in that case. The other thing is that he didn't mention the method he tested for the negative acceleration exactly. And I'm pretty sure he did it like the user posting in this thread before, meaning he did a fast swipe in one direction and a slow swipe back. So he could have done that fast swipe so fast that he surpassed the perfect tracking speed of that sensor. And voilá: negative acceleration (as expected). And as I just said coupled with a pad the 9500 & 9800 are known to track less than optimal and you hit that perfect tracking speed barrier even faster... so he could have noticed some negative acceleration without even having to try too hard to swipe the mouse extremely fast.
So what I'm trying to say here is that nothing is lost yet. The persistent positive acceleration was the thing that was bugging these sensors (9500/9800) and no one from the testers mentioned these issues with the Taipan (actually some even specifically denied it). So while I'm still skeptical until I hold one of these in my own hands I haven't written them off yet and neither should you until there's actually someone really reporting and proofing that there's positive acceleration.

Makes Sense and thanks for the long Response. Have read everything you wrote in this long post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnthusiastR View Post

@mousefan - it looks as if there may be a very slight negative accel. Let my first comment be an illustration of how minor and hard to notice it really is. I only had a couple mins to jump in and try it so I'm going to try tonight to sit down and thoroughly test it. Based on what Skylit has mentioned, we may see Razer push an update to fix it.
Thanks,
George K

ah ok, thanks for the effort and we look forward to further infos.
post #196 of 840
Well.. it's been pushed by other brands, but Avago doesn't really see the issue or consider it big enough to invest money finding a fix. The only difference between those brands and Razer is that Razer is much bigger. Things may change in the future though. Thats all I'll say.
post #197 of 840
I'm about to finish writing my review tonight but I'd just like to drop by and notify everyone that I was incorrect in my earlier posts. There IS negative acceleration. I tested it thoroughly with and without raw input enabled on CS:S and I found that negative acceleration affected both.
post #198 of 840
@mousefan - No problem, I contacted Mon to see if he knows a for sure way of me testing the accel issues. I want to get the mouse tested properly and thoroughly.
post #199 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnthusiastR View Post

I just got my review unit in, I'm going to do some through tests but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem like there's any accel. In the software it has a slider for accel 0 -10. Here's a quick few notes...
Polling rates avail - 1000 / 500 / 125
DPI Level - 100 - 8200 by 100. so 82 steps.
Enotus reports - 3.0m/s + (3.4ish area)
98+ accuracy.
I'm going to thoroughly test it and get back to you guys on the accel.
Best,
George K
Founder of Enthusiast Reviews

3m/s?

Gotta be kidding!

Razer is known to release all their products with at least 4.5m/s ever since the DA.

You're probably using the "wrong" kind of mousepad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

Well the first generation Lachesis was bloody brilliant when kept dust free and used on a hard surface as soft surfaces made it jittery when clicking the buttons. The tracking itself was amazingly precise with absolutely zero positive acceleration and no negative acceleration up until very high movement speeds. To resolve the clicking induced jitter on soft surfaces, they added that dynamic DPI scaling later on in some Mamba firmware update and included it into each PTE mouse they released since then... basically crippling their precision.
Anyways people should realize this: If you want the highest precision at higher DPI settings without correction, jittering etc. the PTE sensors (without that dynamic DPI scaling activated) are the way to go as they are unparalleled to date. But only in conjunction with a hard surface. That's what their marketing strategies should have mentioned in order to avoid that bad reputation. These sensors are god knows no way perfect. They have their issues like z-axis tracking, making them prone to soft surfaces or vibrations and are also more prone to dust (so you have to clean them from time to time). But used in the right environment they are - and I have to repeat myself - unparalleled in terms of precision.

Completely agreed, the first PTE versions were extremely accurate. Yet there were some firmware issues with the mice (I remember my Lachesis droping CPI by itself, at some point I would be playing at half CPI than what I started with).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

Which brings me to the Taipan:

Wall of text here biggrin.gif

Basically there are those options :

- Sensor is not compatible with all surfaces (malfunctions on some, works flawless on others?), which will be bad for the ones rooting for a specific kind of mousepad.
- Review samples still have early Firmware with an old ROM loaded, once the mouse is available in volume they might release newer versions - makes sense since most reviewers are going to be positive about a product they get for free tongue.gif.
- Sensor is just a bit better than 9800 and that's it - in that case, bye Taipan.
- Someone doesn't know to test for accel properly - it's not a scientific method anyway, and one could argue it's more of an art than anything you can prove.

I'm betting for the second and/or the third.

Wanna bet?
post #200 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Marketing units ^^
And no offense to the reviewers, but I have a few external sources on the status of this specific sensor architecture. Razer is a special case, but it's something that's been discussed and battled with the primary manufacturer.

hehe believe you a good knowledge about it. But we'll see.
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