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Razer Taipan - Page 21

post #201 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Well.. it's been pushed by other brands, but Avago doesn't really see the issue or consider it big enough to invest money finding a fix. The only difference between those brands and Razer is that Razer is much bigger. Things may change in the future though. Thats all I'll say.

Right, that's what I also wanted to mention but figured the post was already way too long ^^. Maybe they wanted to get off that z-axis issues the PTE had, but also were aware of the positive acceleration issues the ADNS-9xxx has to date. So in order not to get from one problem case to another they maybe made Avago a deal and a big customer as Razer is for them it might be enough motivation for Avago to fix that issues.

@EnthusiastR: Looking forward! smile.gif
post #202 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnthusiastR View Post

@mousefan - No problem, I contacted Mon to see if he knows a for sure way of me testing the accel issues. I want to get the mouse tested properly and thoroughly.

all right:)
post #203 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

3m/s?
Gotta be kidding!
Razer is known to release all their products with at least 4.5m/s ever since the DA.
You're probably using the "wrong" kind of mousepad.
Completely agreed, the first PTE versions were extremely accurate. Yet there were some firmware issues with the mice (I remember my Lachesis droping CPI by itself, at some point I would be playing at half CPI than what I started with).
Basically there are those options :
- Sensor is not compatible with all surfaces (malfunctions on some, works flawless on others?), which will be bad for the ones rooting for a specific kind of mousepad.
- Review samples still have early Firmware with an old ROM loaded, once the mouse is available in volume they might release newer versions - makes sense since most reviewers are going to be positive about a product they get for free tongue.gif.
- Sensor is just a bit better than 9800 and that's it - in that case, bye Taipan.
- Someone doesn't know to test for accel properly - it's not a scientific method anyway, and one could argue it's more of an art than anything you can prove.
I'm betting for the second and/or the third.
Wanna bet?

Public 9800 rom also has an annoying feature enabled by default. I hope this isnt the case with the Taipan. redface.gif
post #204 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by karod View Post

I can grip the normal DA very good, with its glossy sides.
You should have bought that one thumb.gif

Note everyone is you, durp. thumb.gif
post #205 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Public 9800 rom also has an annoying feature enabled by default. I hope this isnt the case with the Taipan. redface.gif

Does it have anything to do with the "delay" on the movements?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

Right, that's what I also wanted to mention but figured the post was already way too long ^^. Maybe they wanted to get off that z-axis issues the PTE had, but also were aware of the positive acceleration issues the ADNS-9xxx has to date. So in order not to get from one problem case to another they maybe made Avago a deal and a big customer as Razer is for them it might be enough motivation for Avago to fix that issues.
@EnthusiastR: Looking forward! smile.gif

Razer was the one that got Avago to work on an optical sensor with great max perfect control speed, no angle snapping and incredible accuracy for them.

I'm guessing they're pushing hard (again) to get similar results from Avago on their VCSEL sensors.

After all, Razer has taught Avago an important lesson by going with Phillips PTE sensor their last couple of generations of sensors : they can get another company to work for them successfully and they can "advertise" that company so others also implement sensors from other companies on their mice.

So I'm guessing it's on Avago's greatest interest to get the best sensor and SROM out for Razer, and make them forget Phillips even exists wink.gif
post #206 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

Does it have anything to do with the "delay" on the movements?
Razer was the one that got Avago to work on an optical sensor with great max perfect control speed, no angle snapping and incredible accuracy for them.
I'm guessing they're pushing hard (again) to get similar results from Avago on their VCSEL sensors.
After all, Razer has taught Avago an important lesson by going with Phillips PTE sensor their last couple of generations of sensors : they can get another company to work for them successfully and they can "advertise" that company so others also implement sensors from other companies on their mice.
So I'm guessing it's on Avago's greatest interest to get the best sensor and SROM out for Razer, and make them forget Phillips even exists wink.gif

Well put!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMS View Post

3m/s?
Gotta be kidding!
Razer is known to release all their products with at least 4.5m/s ever since the DA.
You're probably using the "wrong" kind of mousepad.
Completely agreed, the first PTE versions were extremely accurate. Yet there were some firmware issues with the mice (I remember my Lachesis droping CPI by itself, at some point I would be playing at half CPI than what I started with).
Basically there are those options :
- Sensor is not compatible with all surfaces (malfunctions on some, works flawless on others?), which will be bad for the ones rooting for a specific kind of mousepad.
- Review samples still have early Firmware with an old ROM loaded, once the mouse is available in volume they might release newer versions - makes sense since most reviewers are going to be positive about a product they get for free tongue.gif.
- Sensor is just a bit better than 9800 and that's it - in that case, bye Taipan.
- Someone doesn't know to test for accel properly - it's not a scientific method anyway, and one could argue it's more of an art than anything you can prove.
I'm betting for the second and/or the third.
Wanna bet?

True about the Lachesis... but to be fair it was their first PTE based mouse and hey: it's Razer after all^^. You gotta expect some bugs in the beginning. Fortunately that CPI dropping didn't occur with later firmwares on my Lachesis at least.

That testing for acceleration is actually pretty scientific and no black magic biggrin.gif. It's actually not a big thing to do when you get the concept of it. I mean you can't measure it exactly to tell the exact amount of acceleration there is without additional tools/machines. But you can tell if there is positive, negative or none (or actually close to none).
post #207 of 840
@MONVMENTVM - You mentioned the 9500/9800 series had issues with darker cloth pads and that's exactly what I'm using. What would be the ideal pad to test the accel, m/s, etc.
post #208 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnthusiastR View Post

@MONVMENTVM - You mentioned the 9500/9800 series had issues with darker cloth pads and that's exactly what I'm using. What would be the ideal pad to test the accel, m/s, etc.

As I said I'm not a 100% sure about the dark cloth pads anymore (maybe someone can confirm it), but I would test it on hard pads. The 9500 even works nicely on glass.

If you don't have anything around you could try using it simply on your desk... maybe that gives better results.
post #209 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

True about the Lachesis... but to be fair it was their first PTE based mouse and hey: it's Razer after all^^. You gotta expect some bugs in the beginning. Fortunately that CPI dropping didn't occur with later firmwares on my Lachesis at least.

Yeah, Razer eventually gets so many new firmwares out that at least one of them succeeds at making the product worth the price!

Even if it's two years after biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONVMENTVM View Post

That testing for acceleration is actually pretty scientific and no black magic biggrin.gif. It's actually not a big thing to do when you get the concept of it. I mean you can't measure it exactly to tell the exact amount of acceleration there is without additional tools/machines. But you can tell if there is positive, negative or none (or actually close to none).

Requires lots of experience. Alas, "black magic" to plenty of people.

I can tell a sensor/mouse has acceleration by feeling inconsistencies in my game/aiming, but pretty much always ended up failing at doing the accel tests tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnthusiastR View Post

@MONVMENTVM - You mentioned the 9500/9800 series had issues with darker cloth pads and that's exactly what I'm using. What would be the ideal pad to test the accel, m/s, etc.

Historically hard pads and CMOS based VCSEL sensors always mated good and had strong and healthy descendants. thumb.gif

You might want to try with the SS 9HD, as it's verified to work wonders with 9500 sensors, or wait for other suggestions.
post #210 of 840
Well in fact acceleration testing is not more than moving the mouse twice for the exact same distance but at different speeds - one time fast and the other time slowly.

With 1:1 movement, meaning no acceleration, the mouse cursor should have traveled the exact same amount of pixels in both cases. This means that the tracking quality is not dependent on how fast you move the mouse.

Negative accel (or skipping) has occurred when the cursor was traveling for less distance on screen when you were moving fast than when you were moving slowly. With positive acceleration it's the other way around: The cursor was traveling for less distance on screen when you were moving slowly than when you were moving fast.

Well and the easiest way to ensure that both times you are moving the mouse for the exact same distance is (for example) like this:
1. Put a heavy and straight object (i.e. book) on one side of your pad (let's say on the left side).
2. Align your mouse in a way that it touches the book on the left side and memorize/mark the spot the mouse cursor/crosshair is located right now.
3. Now move your mouse at high speed to the right without leaving the mousepad.
4. Move the mouse back slowly the same path you did before until it touches the book on the same spot again.
5. Finally check where the mouse cursor is located now in comparison to the location you memorized before:

Results:
A. The cursor is at the same location as before: no acceleration.
B. The cursor did not reach the initial location: positive acceleration (= the cursor traveled more pixels when you were moving it fast).
C. The cursor moved further than the initial location: negative acceleration/skipping (= the cursor missed tracking information when you were moving it fast).

Hope that clarifies it a little smile.gif.
Edited by MONVMENTVM - 6/28/12 at 5:35pm
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