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[Build Log] - The Big Budget Boomer Box (aka, the "BBBB") - Page 54

post #531 of 3982
Bitspower, please make white fittings. They will definitely be a great seller. The paradigm is shifting away from the traditional colors. Modders as a rule do not like to repeat their designs and/or make copies of other designs. They like to be new and innovative. Please be new and innovative too!!!!! thumb.gif
post #532 of 3982
Suggested Flow Concept #1 (Click to show)
Code:
  .-----.
  | Res |<-------------------------------.
  |     |<----------------.              |
  |     |<------.         |              |
  '-----'       |         |              |
     |          |         |              |
     v          |         |              |
   (480)        |         |              |
     |          |         |              |
     v          |         |              |
   (240)        |         |              |
     |          |         |          .---+---.
     v          |         |          |       |
   (480)        |         |        .---.   .---.
     |          |         |        |Brd|   |Brd|
    / \         |     .---+---.    |   |   |   |
   /   \        |     |       |    '---'   '---'
  v     v      (X)  .---.   .---.    ^       ^
(360) (360)     ^   |GPU|   |GPU|    |       |
   \   /        |   |   |   |   |  .---.   .---.
    \ /       .---. '---'   '---'  |RAM|   |RAM|
     Y        |AQ |   ^       ^    |   |   |   |
     |        |   |   |       |    '---'   '---'
     v        '---' .---.   .---.    ^       ^
   (480)        ^   |GPU|   |GPU|    |       |
     |          |   |   |   |   |    '---+---'
     v          |   '---'   '---'        |
   (480)        |     ^       ^        .---.
     |          |     |       |        |CPU|
     v          |     '---+---'        |   |
  .-----.       |         |            '---'
  | Res |->(D5)-+---------'              |
  |     |->(BP Dual D5)------------------'
  '-----'

Concept
  • Radiator sub-loop allows for water to run through radiators multiple times per water block cycle
  • (X) is a variable valve that can be set to increase GPU pressure/flow or decrease Air/Water delta T
  • CPU provided with highest flow rate of all blocks to allow best OC
  • GPUs given their own sub-loop to ensure high flow rate and supplied with fresh water
  • Parallel radiator sub-loops ensure that there is plenty of flow to the intakes of both pumps


Notes
  • It _may_ be possible to run this whole thing with just the BP Dual D5, but it would need to be on high (setting 5) and would likely still have significantly less flow than having the 3rd D5. You just need a ton of pressure to get through all of these blocks. Having the 3rd D5 also will allow both pumps to be run at lower settings without worry.
  • The Dual D5 was put onto the CPU sub-loop due to CPU, RAM, and Motherboard blocks being more restrictive as well as knowing that this sub-loop will contain a great many elbows and perhaps smaller ID tubing.
  • This design will likely evolve as I have not run calculations yet, so it's currently an idea and estimate of what would work best in a system with so many WC components.
  • I'm not sure what to do with that 280 radiator. You can stick it onto one of the 480-360-480, but looking at the case, doing so would require quite a bit of extra tubing just for a little 280.
  • Ignore the order of rads shown, as it will depend on actual installation, just make sure that they each include 2 480s and a 360. Likely, the order will be 360->480->480 or 480->480->360 to use the least amount of tubing.
  • Both reservoirs double as pressure equalizers between sub-loops, so if you do not have enough connectors on your reservoirs, you'll need cross-sub-loop Y's.
  • If the Aquacomputer radiators prove to be too restrictive, check their In/Out channels to see if you can set them up to run in 2-pass using T's instead of the usual 4-pass to increase flow.

I'll update this later as things change. Initial thoughts, cpachris?
Edited by Electrocutor - 7/9/12 at 9:35am
post #533 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Intriguing. Extremely intriguing. A few questions first:

1) How are the 3 different loops ( or subloops?) connecting to the reservoir on top of the diagram? Some type of Q block?
2) Differentiate subloop from a separate loop, so I'm clear.
3) If X is a valve, when it is closed, would there be no flow to the aquaero? How does it decrease the temp delta?
4) So the radiators are separated with different streams of flow...but reconnect back at a reservoir before cycling again? Correct?

What do you think the benefits are in a subloop arrangement like this....versus just having separate loops?
post #534 of 3982
I must say I've never put that much thought into the configuration of a WC'd loop. So I applaud you for doing all of that applaud.gif
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Venom Berry
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Cave Bear
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Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Spinpoint F3 XSPC Raystorm EK GTX 560 Ti Acetal+Nickel 2 Phobya G-Changer 240 Radiators 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Danger Den RAD-Reservoir Mayhems Pastel Blue Coolant Windows 7 2 Asus VW224U + AOC 2217 
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post #535 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpachris View Post

Intriguing. Extremely intriguing. A few questions first:
1) How are the 3 different loops ( or subloops?) connecting to the reservoir on top of the diagram? Some type of Q block?
2) Differentiate subloop from a separate loop, so I'm clear.
3) If X is a valve, when it is closed, would there be no flow to the aquaero? How does it decrease the temp delta?
4) So the radiators are separated with different streams of flow...but reconnect back at a reservoir before cycling again? Correct?
What do you think the benefits are in a subloop arrangement like this....versus just having separate loops?

1) Ideally each of the connections you see would be an actual connection on the reservoir, this way the entry and exit to the reservoirs would not be a bottleneck. Having 4 is fairly common. If you end up not having enough connections on the res and don't want to drill additional G1/4" threads, you'll need to come up with a way to get to the number you want. With this flow concept, it really is necessary to have at least 3 connections on each reservoir to sustain flow: the 3rd incoming line (from the AQ/valve) could be Y merged into the other two lines (using reverse Y's if you had only 3 connections. If you're not going to have 3 connections on both reservoirs, let me know what you do have to work with and I'll come up with a different flow concept.
Code:
 ^   ^
 |   |
 |\ /|
 | Y |
 | | |

2) A sub-loop is a partial loop of the whole design, but all the sub-loops are connected to each other creating a single whole loop. Since it's a single whole loop, the air/water delta T is the same for all sub-loops thus full cooling is available to all components. A separate loop would have individual delta Ts for gpus and cpu/ram/brd loops, so one will likely run hotter than the other: in some cases people may prefer this if they want their delta T lower for CPU than GPU. Usually GPUs dump much more heat into the system than the CPU. I'll note here that initially I wanted to put all 6 of those radiators in series instead of 2x3 in parallel/series, but after looking at the aquacomputer flow rates, I second-guessed whether that would cause a bottleneck: if there isn't much difference in actual flow rate having all 6 in series, that would be a better option.

3) You would never want to fully close it so water still flows through the Aquero. Don't think of this as open or closed, but rather a variable lever for flow-rate. Opening the lever allows more flow through the radiators, which decreases delta T of the system by circulating through the radiators more than once so in effect you will actually be going through 8, 10, or more radiators instead of 6 for each time the water goes through the water block loops (which are much more restrictive). The more closed the valve becomes, the higher the flow/pressure will be going through the GPUs. After you have had the system running and at equilibrium, you would want to make small adjustments to the valve until you found the 'sweet spot' for GPU temp and delta T.

4) The biggest benefit is recirculating through the radiators multiple times. Like I mentioned above, ideally you would want all 6 radiators in series, but only if those Aquacomputer ones don't cause the flow to decrease. I suppose you could just run the Aquacomputer ones in parallel and the other 4 in series with them too (I probably should have done this and will update it later). Another benefit is that since it's all within the same loop, you are never "wasting" cooling potential like if one of your deltaT's is high and one low in a two separate loop setup.

[Edit]
Updated concept diagram to reflect better radiator arrangement
You can see my concern here (Click to show)
700
At 1.5 GPM, the SR-1 loses about .4 PSI whereas the AC loses 1.7 PSI (more than 4 times more restrictive)
Edited by Electrocutor - 7/9/12 at 9:55am
post #536 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrocutor View Post

1) Ideally each of the connections you see would be an actual connection on the reservoir, this way the entry and exit to the reservoirs would not be a bottleneck. Having 4 is fairly common. If you end up not having enough connections on the res and don't want to drill additional G1/4" threads, you'll need to come up with a way to get to the number you want. With this flow concept, it really is necessary to have at least 3 connections on each reservoir to sustain flow: the 3rd incoming line (from the AQ/valve) could be Y merged into the other two lines (using reverse Y's if you had only 3 connections. If you're not going to have 3 connections on both reservoirs, let me know what you do have to work with and I'll come up with a different flow concept.

Since all of the 480's are SR1's, there is only one inlet and one outlet. I've checked it out for potential taping of additional threads, and have some concerns. See picture:

400

There is not room on the sides for a G1/4 tapped hole, and having one on the opposite side of the existing threads would not work with placement of the rads. There DOES appear to be room on either side of the same plate where the existing threads are located and/or on the top. BUT....you see how the existing threads are built up with that cylinder of metal? The walls of the mini reservoir on the radiator are very thin, and I do not think they are thick enough to simply tap a new hole with threads. I think to gain addition inlets it would need to be drilled and then a thicker threaded insert would have to be soldered into place. This may be more complexity than I'm willing to tackle. Let me know how having only one inlet on the 480's impacts your designed solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrocutor View Post


3) You would never want to fully close it so water still flows through the Aquero. Don't think of this as open or closed, but rather a variable lever for flow-rate. Opening the lever allows more flow through the radiators, which decreases delta T of the system by circulating through the radiators more than once so in effect you will actually be going through 8, 10, or more radiators instead of 6 for each time the water goes through the water block loops (which are much more restrictive). The more closed the valve becomes, the higher the flow/pressure will be going through the GPUs. After you have had the system running and at equilibrium, you would want to make small adjustments to the valve until you found the 'sweet spot' for GPU temp and delta T.

Opening the valve would allow more flow....but it would be water that didn't have much heat dumped into it....right? Is your premise that the additional flow would help with the other streams of water that actually had heat dumped into them from the waterblocks? I guess that makes sense. If the streams are combining before entering the rads....the higher flow stream would positively impact flow on the lower flow stream (that contains all the heat). Interesting concept.

What are your thoughts on placement of the additional pump(s)? Would it make sense to get them into the loop right before the most restrictive components? Which may be the AMS rads.....
post #537 of 3982
1) I'm not sure why you're showing a radiator... the question was about the number of G1/4" connections that you have available on the reservoir, right? If you can figure out a way to make the AMS rads be 2-pass instead of 4, that would probably help though. I'm not sure how all those in and out G1/4" connections are configured inside.

3) I really don't think you would need another (4th) pump. If you were really heart set on it though, I would put it just after the top reservoir to push water through the rads. The thing is that the lower res in the diagram is already feeding dual-D5 (serial) and D5 pumps in parallel, so I really don't think you want or need a 4th.

[Edit]
I forgot to mention this before, but if you want to get the highest possible CPU overclock and will mostly be ignoring your GPUs, then you would probably be better off using 2 separate loops so the excess heat from your GPUs would not affect the delta T of your CPU loop. If you want to utilize all 4 GPUs and the CPU to equal extent, then having it setup in a single loop like this is better.
Edited by Electrocutor - 7/9/12 at 11:18am
post #538 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrocutor View Post

1) I'm not sure why you're showing a radiator... the question was about the number of G1/4" connections that you have available on the reservoir, right? If you can figure out a way to make the AMS rads be 2-pass instead of 4, that would probably help though. I'm not sure how all those in and out G1/4" connections are configured inside.
3) I really don't think you would need another (4th) pump. If you were really heart set on it though, I would put it just after the top reservoir to push water through the rads. The thing is that the lower res in the diagram is already feeding dual-D5 (serial) and D5 pumps in parallel, so I really don't think you want or need a 4th.
[Edit]
I forgot to mention this before, but if you want to get the highest possible CPU overclock and will mostly be ignoring your GPUs, then you would probably be better off using 2 separate loops so the excess heat from your GPUs would not affect the delta T of your CPU loop. If you want to utilize all 4 GPUs and the CPU to equal extent, then having it setup in a single loop like this is better.

You're totally right....I got turned around for a moment. I'm kind of liking the subloop idea. FrozenQ hasn't shipped my reservoirs yet, so I think I could get him to drill some extra inlets/outlets. I also LOVE your use of my 2nd reservoir. It was going to be primarily cosmetic before, because I like reservoirs....but in this concept it is somewhat functional.
post #539 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Pictures of card reader teardown

I chose the Rosewill USB 3.0 Card Reader, as pictured below:

400
400

I copy a lot of pictures/video from my cards to the computer, and I sure didn't want USB 2.0 to be the bottleneck. I have the CaseLabs 3.5 inch bay adapter with a crimson powdercoat on the outside, so from the front, only the black faceplate will show. I popped it off fairly easily with the tabs located on the side of the reader:

400

It's plastic, so I don't have the option of having it powdercoated. And I wouldn't want to try and paint it crimson to match, because even though my two color spraypaint combination (base of merlot and topcoat of crimson red) is a real close match for the case....its not exact, and if the two were next to each other, it would show. I think I'll live with the black, because its a small faceplate. I could tinker with using some carbon wrap if I wanted to give it a little bit different look. Will consider.

Next, I separated the top aluminum shell from the bottom:

400

It comes right off as long as the screws attaching it to the case bay adapters are not in place. After that, there were two small screws connecting the PCB to the bottom aluminum shell. Took these off, and the shell came off and PCB is now free:

400

There are two USB 3.0 connections on the PCB. Need to remove these, or I won't be able to sleeve these cables. One connector is attached with two small screws. I undid these and it came off easily. The second is just plugged into a socket on the PCB, but as you can see in the picture above, there was some gunk applied to make the connection more permanent. Click on picture above for close-up and you'll see what I mean. Took some work with an exacto knife, but I got rid of the glue gunk, and undid the second USB connection.

400

I haven't ever sleeved a USB cable before, but I'll give that a try. The aluminum shells only show from the inside of the case, so I think I'll have those powder coated white, to match the case interior. For the sleeve on the cables....I'll either use some custom dyed crimson sleeve, or white. Either option will be MDPC-X. I'll take a look at the faceplate as-is, and consider it for some black carbon fiber. Any other ideas on customizing this little card reader?
post #540 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpachris View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Pictures of card reader teardown

I chose the Rosewill USB 3.0 Card Reader, as pictured below:

400
400

I copy a lot of pictures/video from my cards to the computer, and I sure didn't want USB 2.0 to be the bottleneck. I have the CaseLabs 3.5 inch bay adapter with a crimson powdercoat on the outside, so from the front, only the black faceplate will show. I popped it off fairly easily with the tabs located on the side of the reader:

400

It's plastic, so I don't have the option of having it powdercoated. And I wouldn't want to try and paint it crimson to match, because even though my two color spraypaint combination (base of merlot and topcoat of crimson red) is a real close match for the case....its not exact, and if the two were next to each other, it would show. I think I'll live with the black, because its a small faceplate. I could tinker with using some carbon wrap if I wanted to give it a little bit different look. Will consider.

Next, I separated the top aluminum shell from the bottom:

400

It comes right off as long as the screws attaching it to the case bay adapters are not in place. After that, there were two small screws connecting the PCB to the bottom aluminum shell. Took these off, and the shell came off and PCB is now free:

400

There are two USB 3.0 connections on the PCB. Need to remove these, or I won't be able to sleeve these cables. One connector is attached with two small screws. I undid these and it came off easily. The second is just plugged into a socket on the PCB, but as you can see in the picture above, there was some gunk applied to make the connection more permanent. Click on picture above for close-up and you'll see what I mean. Took some work with an exacto knife, but I got rid of the glue gunk, and undid the second USB connection.

400

I haven't ever sleeved a USB cable before, but I'll give that a try. The aluminum shells only show from the inside of the case, so I think I'll have those powder coated white, to match the case interior. For the sleeve on the cables....I'll either use some custom dyed crimson sleeve, or white. Either option will be MDPC-X. I'll take a look at the faceplate as-is, and consider it for some black carbon fiber. Any other ideas on customizing this little card reader?

I heard SATA sleeve is good for USB.

Maybe make a shorter enclosure for it so you can put something (a res maybe?) in the rest of the 5.25 bay.
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