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Kill Coil and Nickel Plating Ok?

7K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  Antjel 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,

I am currently ramping up to build my first dream system and had a question regarding using silver in my system. The last time I watercooled I used a non-dyed premix and didn't really have any issues. However looking for a some better temps and due to all of the horror stories I read about on premixed coolants I planned on going the distilled/kill coil route. But now I am looking at the koolance site for my 690gtx waterblock and I read this.
Quote:
Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. Do not use silver with nickel in the same system.
My question is since any high end block is nickel plated these days should I not go with a silver kill coil and just go with another additive or another premix?

Thanks guys...you can check out my hardware on my rig and I will be starting a build log shortly to return the favor to all of the great information I have gained from this awesome community.

Cheers,
Antjel
 
#5 ·
You might need a lawyer instead of a water-cooler but I saw the same thing at their site recently. To me it sounds like you must use Koolance's proprietary coolant to retain warranty. Hope others will chime in on that and I hope I am wrong but read it carefully and even a 3rd party coolant or additive (PT Nuke?) will void the contract. So if you want warranty, I suggest using Koolance Coolant. You really don't lose much thermal advantage. Here is testing from Skinnee's: http://skinneelabs.com/coolantfluid-roundup-thermal-performance/3/.

The real disadvantage is cost but that is a big one. If you use the proprietary coolant, you don't need biocide like a silver coil.

I believe your other options are to forget about warranty and do what you like. Agree with The Seeker that among the community, Silver coils are usually not considered a threat to well-plated Nickel. Good luck.
smile.gif


add: I could not recall if anyone is still making copper GPU blocks but now can say one more option is all copper blocks with distilled water and a silver coil. My Swiftech CPU block is copper and my Danger Den full-cover is copper. DD makes for the gtx680 copper-acrylic: http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=631&cat=48&page=1#tabs. No information on a 690 but you could always call them. Sounds like a great build. Have fun.
 
#6 ·
There are a few manufacturers that recommend using "their coolant" and I do not buy it. I have been H20 cooling for over ten years. I started off with Aqua and ventured off to Koolance and EK. The only blocks that I have never had a problem with is Aqua. After my multiple problems with EK and one with Koolance, I went back to Aqua. If you cannot use distilled H20, deionized H20 without using a company's coolant, I go back to what I know works. Just my 2 cents.
 
#7 ·
Not all high end blocks are nickel plated... Heatkillers use Chrome.

Edit: Oh, and stay away from Primochill, they have a bad plasticizer problem right now. Check out the thread on plasticizer problems. It also seems heatkiller doesn't have a 690 block out yet, but if you're not in a rush that may be remedied soon.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Not all high end blocks are nickel plated... Heatkillers use Chrome.
Edit: Oh, and stay away from Primochill, they have a bad plasticizer problem right now. Check out the thread on plasticizer problems. It also seems heatkiller doesn't have a 690 block out yet, but if you're not in a rush that may be remedied soon.
Well I had planned on the UV Blue Primochill LRT (already bought it doh!) Any recommendations for semi-transparent blue tubing?

BTW
Yeah I am boycotting EK so I am desparately waiting for the x79 Classy blocks to appear available with another brand. This in turn has bought myself some time on pulling the trigger on the 690 blocks. Hopefully some options will open soon I actually sold my old rig at a charity price to my cousin and have not even gamed since then since I refuse to play on my wifes rig LOL. That's fine though I have plenty of other build challenges to tied me over while I wait.
thumb.gif
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Not all high end blocks are nickel plated... Heatkillers use Chrome.
Actually they do use nickel, they just do a much better job of it than EK and even Koolance. Swiftech is the one that chromes over their full-cover stuff for the Classified blocks, at least.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Actually they do use nickel, they just do a much better job of it than EK and even Koolance. Swiftech is the one that chromes over their full-cover stuff for the Classified blocks, at least.
Sorry, I got that mixed up. They use stainless steel, not chrome.

In their description on every website I've seen it lists the materials as Copper, POM, and stainless steel, and that all water carrying parts are copper and stainless steel. Soooo.... I just go by what I'm told....

Merchant #1

Merchant #2

Merchant #3

And actually, on the 680 block it says that the only thing in contact with water is copper. I imagine the 690 block will be the same.

Personally, you couldn't pay me to take any sort of plating over a good hunk of stainless steel.

Edit: Just realized I've been looking at primarily new-gen blocks. Didn't realize they did nickel plating for older cards.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Sorry, I got that mixed up. They use stainless steel, not chrome.
In their description on every website I've seen it lists the materials as Copper, POM, and stainless steel, and that all water carrying parts are copper and stainless steel. Soooo.... I just go by what I'm told....
Merchant #1
Merchant #2
Merchant #3
And actually, on the 680 block it says that the only thing in contact with water is copper. I imagine the 690 block will be the same.
Personally, you couldn't pay me to take any sort of plating over a good hunk of stainless steel.
Yep, my block will be a HeatKiller. Trying to decide between the copper and stainless steel or Nickel plated 570 block.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

And actually, on the 680 block it says that the only thing in contact with water is copper. I imagine the 690 block will be the same.
Personally, you couldn't pay me to take any sort of plating over a good hunk of stainless steel.
Stainless steel is fine, anyway, but for the actual heat-transfer material you're best off with copper, whether it's bare, nickel, or nickel+chrome-plated (it needs nickel under the chrome).
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Stainless steel is fine, anyway, but for the actual heat-transfer material you're best off with copper, whether it's bare, nickel, or nickel+chrome-plated (it needs nickel under the chrome).
I don't think anyone out there uses anything but copper for contact points other than the floozies doing nickel plating.
 
#16 ·
"Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion". They don't care what you use, they just won't cover corrosion.

"Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth." this is a recommendation to help prevent what they don't cover.

Since they recommend against mixing silver and nickel, I wouldn't recommend mixing silver and nickel.
 
#17 ·
Mixing nickel and silver is fine as long as the nickel plating is done right, I have one EK nickel block failing/flaking and another EK block that doesn't have a single issue with regards to it's nickel plating! EK just can't seem to tackle proper nickel plating, even after all of the issues dating back to 2011 June! Note nickel flaking doesn't effect temperatures, it only effects looks.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post

Mixing nickel and silver is fine as long as the nickel plating is done right, I have one EK nickel block failing/flaking and another EK block that doesn't have a single issue with regards to it's nickel plating! EK just can't seem to tackle proper nickel plating, even after all of the issues dating back to 2011 June! Note nickel flaking doesn't effect temperatures, it only effects looks.
I think you're right
smile.gif
. I'm not sure if it's about "doing it right" though. Each batch of nickel plating is different. IF silver and nickel are actually corroding with each other, some batches of nickel may be more "corrosion-resistant" than others. I don't think the nickel plating process is done by hand. The perfectly plated blocks could take many years to show signs of corrosion / nickel dissipation. Still, nickel and silver corrosion could be a different issue than the flaking / bad plating issue altogether, couldn't it?
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol12ek View Post

I think you're right
smile.gif
. I'm not sure if it's about "doing it right" though. Each batch of nickel plating is different. IF silver and nickel are actually corroding with each other, some batches of nickel may be more "corrosion-resistant" than others. I don't think the nickel plating process is done by hand. The perfectly plated blocks could take many years to show signs of corrosion / nickel dissipation. Still, nickel and silver corrosion could be a different issue than the flaking / bad plating issue altogether, couldn't it?
The silver concentration in the water is so miniscule, it's hard to fathom it could cause any visible corrosion within any reasonable time frame.

The flaking issue is due to blocks coming from the factory with pitting already present in their nickel plating. Ridiculously thin plating, and awful prep work cause this.

If even a miniscule amount of copper is exposed to the water, flaking will occur in a short period of time. A properly plated block needs to have 100% nickel coverage on any surface exposed to water.

Koolance wants you to buy their fluid or a specified partner's fluid, i.e. scam.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post

The silver concentration in the water is so miniscule, it's hard to fathom it could cause any visible corrosion within any reasonable time frame.
The flaking issue is due to blocks coming from the factory with pitting already present in their nickel plating. Ridiculously thin plating, and awful prep work cause this.
If even a miniscule amount of copper is exposed to the water, flaking will occur in a short period of time. A properly plated block needs to have 100% nickel coverage on any surface exposed to water.
Koolance wants you to buy their fluid or a specified partner's fluid, i.e. scam.
I agree, back when RR did that article on not only how thin the plating was but also that there was pitting and areas that were so thin flaking was inevitable, when you have mixed metals extremely closed (thousands of an inch) to each other flaking will happen! I wish people would stop confusing this flaking with corrosion, you want to see corrosion look at the Statue of Liberty.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post

The silver concentration in the water is so miniscule, it's hard to fathom it could cause any visible corrosion within any reasonable time frame.
The flaking issue is due to blocks coming from the factory with pitting already present in their nickel plating. Ridiculously thin plating, and awful prep work cause this.
If even a miniscule amount of copper is exposed to the water, flaking will occur in a short period of time. A properly plated block needs to have 100% nickel coverage on any surface exposed to water.
Koolance wants you to buy their fluid or a specified partner's fluid, i.e. scam.
Is it safe to run a rasa cpu waterblock with a koolance nickel GPU block alongside silver kill coil? I'm thinking of adding a Koolance waterblock to my system is why
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by spitty13 View Post

Is it safe to run a rasa cpu waterblock with a koolance nickel GPU block alongside silver kill coil? I'm thinking of adding a Koolance waterblock to my system is why
Is there any reason why you want a Koolance block? With warranty terms like they have, I would stay away.

Heatkiller and Aqua Computer make awesome blocks with top notch machining.

To answer your question, as long as Koolance did their plating work correctly, it will be safe. Koolance does not seem to have anywhere near the number of flaking cases that EK had (and has).
 
#23 ·
Koolance and EK are making sure there is no come back with corrosion and putting end users in somewhat of an untenable position. I agree with others in feeling it may be a preparation QC before nickel plating that gives rise to problems.

Apart from Nickel plating and silver coil warning by Koolance & EK, EK also warn against copper sulfate. Based on what Koolance & EK now state corrosion inhibitors are a must with Nickel plating which presumably is why distilled and silver coil or copper sulfate alone is not considered good.

I have EK CPU & GPU EN blocks with Feser One fluid and they perform great, however the sheer weight users reporting nickel plating corrosion problems is a concern now. Given how pricey Koolance are warranty is poor in my opinion.

It would be interesting to know what the market share is between Koolance, EK, Heatkiller & Aqua Computer when trying to gauge how big an issue there is with Nickel plating, Maybe we should just avoid nickel plating!!
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post

The silver concentration in the water is so miniscule, it's hard to fathom it could cause any visible corrosion within any reasonable time frame.
The flaking issue is due to blocks coming from the factory with pitting already present in their nickel plating. Ridiculously thin plating, and awful prep work cause this.
If even a miniscule amount of copper is exposed to the water, flaking will occur in a short period of time. A properly plated block needs to have 100% nickel coverage on any surface exposed to water.
Koolance wants you to buy their fluid or a specified partner's fluid, i.e. scam.
I'm not sure how a $15 bottle every 2-3 years is a scam. How much is a silver coil and anti-corrosive additive? If you think you don't need an anti-corrosive with an all copper/brass loop, you should think again. It should be used in all loops.

Since they sell an anti-corrosive, and anti-biological additive in the same bottle that is recommended by them, why not? Koolance liquid doesn't gunk up your loop, and they have clear liquid if you're worried about staining.

The only reason I see not to is the 0.1 degree performance drop.

I also don't understand what you don't like about their warranty policy. They warrant use of any liquid now, just not corrosion. Something you won't get if you use their liquid. Sounds like a scam.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol12ek View Post

I'm not sure how a $15 bottle every 2-3 years is a scam. How much is a silver coil and anti-corrosive additive? If you think you don't need an anti-corrosive with an all copper/brass loop, you should think again. It should be used in all loops.
Since they sell an anti-corrosive, and anti-biological additive in the same bottle that is recommended by them, why not? Koolance liquid doesn't gunk up your loop, and they have clear liquid if you're worried about staining.
The only reason I see not to is the 0.1 degree performance drop.
I also don't understand what you don't like about their warranty policy. They warrant use of any liquid now, just not corrosion. Something you won't get if you use their liquid. Sounds like a scam.
$15 a bottle is a scam compared with buying regular distilled at $1-2 a gallon.
 
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