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[PCI] The UFC (French defense of the consumers) is tearing Blizzard a new one over Diablo 3 and DRM - Page 9

post #81 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko View Post

I find the people who think that they should have 24/7 access to a game they paid for quite funny. When I pay the month's phone/internet bill and the month's electric bill, I can't throw a hissy fit that my bill retains the same base rate even though my area has frequent power and internet outages. And both of those companies are local monopolies; we have the option to pay our bill or get it shut off. What makes a person think that luxury products would be more consumer-friendly? Online games have errors, require regular server maintenance, etc. I find it generous that Blizzard is offering a refund at all, not that they should be neglecting to maintain their own products (that will hurt their business). AT&T certainly doesn't reimburse me anything when the internet is out up to half of the time. I hope Blizzard does the right thing and looks after their customers, for their own sake.

Actually, you could sue and win if they didn't provide you the services you are paying in a timely manner. For instance, we have the right to be advised whenever the power needs to be shut down due to maintenance (and they tell us like 2 weeks prior to it), but should the power be cut for any reasons not being acceptable (such as natural disasters or not caused directly by the company that handles it... imagine a truck hitting an electric substation...) then they are liable for any damage that they may have caused to you, and the same could be said about any other service.

So, sure, we get what we pay for... and they better service it appropriately wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaguoonkee View Post

I agree that online-only DRM is a piece of trash that shouldn't have been implemented. But the way the government would enforce this rule would result in worse consequences than the online-only DRM. Like this would mean that some "agency" in the EU would regulate all game markets, like Steam, Origin, GOG, etc. to make sure that games don't have online-only DRM. Governments have a tendency to expand its powers, not to contract, which would mean that since now game markets are regulated, they'll introduce other "consumer-protection" laws, all with good intentions, but with poor execution.
I'm not saying that the EU is bad or has bad intentions, it'll just have good intentions but end up causing more harm. Like the full body scanners and pat-downs in the US. Protecting from terrorists? Good intention, but how they handle that? Terrible. I'm afraid that something like that happening with the game market.

You are thinking it too deep. This ain't about DRM, this is about a company not complying with the contracts signed with their clients. They only needed to have the servers working and then this shouldn't be an issue.

You see, I'm not complaining of the DRM model used (although I don't like at all), but about the fact that people couldn't use a product they paid for because the sellers didn't have the resources needed to do so, and thus why they are liable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Please don't sit there and dictate to me that I'm wrong when you can't even grasp that you're not buying a product or service--you're paying a license fee to use the product as per the owner's license agreement. When you exchange money and install the game to play it, you agree to the license agreement(s) for the use. If you don't agree with the terms of the license agreement (and hence the terms of use of the product), then don't agree to it and don't pay for it.
Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to involve a governing body to dictate what game developers can and cannot do with their games is welcoming the end of the gaming industry.The absolute worst thing I can envision in my mind is some governing body dictating what a game can/cannot and should/should not do. It'll seriously be the end of the game industry if that happens.
I reiterate--blizzard informed people. Blizzard honored refunds for those that did not use the product. Blizzard enumerated their EULA. People still bought the game. Peoples' fault. Informed decisions and personal accountability. As I said before, it's your own dumb fault if you bought a game and assumed that you would not experience issues described by the publisher before launch. Don't like the fact that there were more game copies sold than server slots open? Don't buy the game.

I've read a lot of consumer laws in my own country, so that I know how stuff works (legally). When you buy a product the seller (or manufacturer, in any case who handles the warranty is decided on the client side, which means that its normal to have your seller take your RMA's) is liable should such product not work as intended to, and thus is the one that will handle any complain you may have about something not working as supposed to.
So that you know, the law states a lot of times the "attitude" behind such behaviour: its not the same to sell a defective product not knowing it doesn't work (such as a seller when the product is unopened) than selling it when you know that it clearly doesn't work as announced. So, the fact that your behavior was dictated by "bad faith" (and that is the exact term the law states, specially when talking about contractual terms) means that you clearly wanted to screw somebody else... and thus why it gets full offensive. So, the fact that Blizzard, KNOWINGLY, sold more copies than the ones they could handle is a clear abuse of the "bad faith" clauses ... and thus why we are seeing this problem.

Also, you put too much faith into EULA's: those terms are actually correct in those countries that don't have regulatory norms in such aspects... which we do in the EU, which means that such EULA's need to agree with such regulatory norms or else they will be declared abusive (and void) or be superseded. Its as simple as that, and its something that works the way it works.

Also, regarding your comments about information... such excuses have no legal basis whatsoever. If you buy something, you are entitled to such service/product in the shape, form and when stated by the contract... and both parts are also liable should they don't comply with such contract (no need to sign anything, buying/selling implies a contract) as stated by it. This means that, if you are a cinema, you can't possibly offer more seats than the ones you have even if you announce that "there may be not enough seats for anybody..." because you are acting in bad faith, to put it simply. Why? You sold a service that couldn't offer properly, and thus you are liable for any damages you may have caused to whoever you have caused them... which means, but is not limited to, refunding your clients no questions asked... just as the plane-companies will not only refund you but offer you a decent hotel + meals if, by their mistake, you are denied flying in case the plane is overcrowded. Again, its not my fault that somebody is as greedy as it gets and they sell something they can't offer, and no EULA will be over the regular laws that protect us, should something like that happen.

To end my statement, let me tell you that this ain't about you nor me, nor whether the institutions having more or less power. We have different laws than you have, and anybody wanting to do business between our frontiers should accept that fact and work within such boundaries... or get sued and face consequences when they don't. And thus why I've been stating that you're wrong because I know some of the laws that affect my own country biggrin.gif

PS: and I do agree with the fact that too many regulation is as bad as too few... but this is not the place nor the topic to make such discussion. Also, the thread would deeply derail into politics and I'm sure none of us would want that, want we? wink.gif
Edited by prava - 6/14/12 at 7:34am
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post #82 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

Most countries have consumer rights that transcend user license agreements. The US apparently doesn't, which is why we get the shaft so much as consumers.

That's not technically true. We do have consumer rights in the US, but its application to a given scenario often depends on legal precedent, and no legal team is dumb enough to let a court actually reach a decision that isn't in the company's favor. They just settle out court when things look bad so that their legally dubious EULAs don't get outlawed. The consumer involved in the trial could refuse to settle if they wanted, but by that point legal costs are piling up, so that never really happens.
post #83 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Actually, you could sue and win
Scars Unseen just explained why nobody in my area can sue the huge corporations that dictate the utilities. The lawyers would have me cleaned out before anything even made it in front of a judge. Blizzard, as a whole, has about as much control over an unexpected error as the power company has over a drunk hitting a utility pole. It's a situation that COSTS the business money to repair, and Blizzard is offering people refunds to avoid having to deal with half of these frivolous lawsuits. Maybe having to pay for a mass quantity of lawsuits would hurt the business, but more consumers would be financially worse off in the long run. Games are a luxury item. If one can't consider the money spent and move on, then chances are it was money that should have been spent on something more important or that consumer is simply being childish over a bad investment of his entertainment budget.
 
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post #84 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko View Post

Scars Unseen just explained why nobody in my area can sue the huge corporations that dictate the utilities. The lawyers would have me cleaned out before anything even made it in front of a judge. Blizzard, as a whole, has about as much control over an unexpected error as the power company has over a drunk hitting a utility pole. It's a situation that COSTS the business money to repair, and Blizzard is offering people refunds to avoid having to deal with half of these frivolous lawsuits. Maybe having to pay for a mass quantity of lawsuits would hurt the business, but more consumers would be financially worse off in the long run. Games are a luxury item. If one can't consider the money spent and move on, then chances are it was money that should have been spent on something more important or that consumer is simply being childish over a bad investment of his entertainment budget.

Context, mate, context wink.gif This thread is about some french agency studying the D3 case... just as my example was about the laws of my very own country. thumb.gif
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post #85 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko View Post

Scars Unseen just explained why nobody in my area can sue the huge corporations that dictate the utilities. The lawyers would have me cleaned out before anything even made it in front of a judge. Blizzard, as a whole, has about as much control over an unexpected error as the power company has over a drunk hitting a utility pole. It's a situation that COSTS the business money to repair, and Blizzard is offering people refunds to avoid having to deal with half of these frivolous lawsuits. Maybe having to pay for a mass quantity of lawsuits would hurt the business, but more consumers would be financially worse off in the long run. Games are a luxury item. If one can't consider the money spent and move on, then chances are it was money that should have been spent on something more important or that consumer is simply being childish over a bad investment of his entertainment budget.

LOL

Yeah once your money is spent you have no rights to get it back from an "unexpected" (read: totally avoidable for a large billion dollar company) error. Great nation on the planet, I reckon?
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post #86 of 111
Calling for a refund.

Been on the phone for over an hour.
Edited by Shmerrick - 6/14/12 at 12:47pm
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post #87 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmerrick View Post

Calling for a refund.

I called for a refund yesterday and aside from waiting over an hour to talk to someone, the actual refund process was painless and I had my money back in just a few minutes.
post #88 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by dante020 View Post

I never said it was a MMO, but it's really not far off. It is an ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game that you can play solo if you so choose. There are many ONLINE MULTIPLAYER games out there that apparently don't have "Draconian DRM" even though they require you to be online.

Most people don't consider it multiplayer-only, and many will not ever be playing it with anyone else. That's the issue, if Blizzard cared about customers and not just its own wallet they would've made an offline-only mode for this huge group of people by including the gameplay code with the game.
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post #89 of 111
This is amazing. So the next time I am in an out of service zone for my cell phone, I will be sure to contact my provider and demand they put a cell tower up so that area is no longer void of service. Since when are we entitled to a no-risk purchase? That is the whole point, you purchase a product from a renowned company because you believe there is less risk involved then purchasing from someone or some company that you never heard of. Even more so the notion that Blizzard hid their always online policy is a farce. There are articles on many sites that were evaluating their always online service 6 months before the game was released. And it says on the box that it is always online. I could understand if it didn't say anything on the box, but you see that System Requirements part? Yeah, it says it there. But hey, next time I buy a game where my system requirements are not up to par, and thus I buy it and it doesn't run on my PC, I will be sure to sue the company because they didn't inform me. Funny thing, I am not even defending Blizzard, just common sense and self responsibility.
post #90 of 111
if I put in a ticket yesterday for a refund, and they take their sweet time to reply, am I Ok, or should I waste 3/4 of my phone minutes on talking to them?
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