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[TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition "Tahiti XT2" Detailed - Page 12  

post #111 of 156
Love finally being on the edge. Had my 7970 so long now I am considering skipping crossfire and going straight to 8970. thumb.gif
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post #112 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jprovido View Post

what is this im hearing about nvidia drivers much better than amd drivers? utter bullshhhh nvidia has been slipping with their drivers these past few months and everyone who owns an nvidia card knows it. esp sli users

The 460's in SLI i had sucked, my 6950 ate em up, got rid of 1 and put the other in wifeys puter.
Can't say how they work now though. I do know they went through a couple major performance enhancements though via drivers. A general 15% increase on 1 of the drivers, then it was 5-20% increase to a variety of games with another driver couple months later, but don't have two anymore so cannot test tongue.gif

Now they are dated, so wasn't worth the wait really.
 
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post #113 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by l88bastar View Post

FIRST: I am extremely sensitive to micro-stutter and am extremely intolerant of it. I hate micro-stutter just as much as I hate 3D crosstalk.
SECOND: I have owned crossfire 5970s, crossfired 6970s, trifire 6990+6970 and now crossfire 7970s...so I have some multi-gpu experience.
THIRD: The new AMD beta drivers are AMAZING! I am NOT...REPEAT AM NOT getting any visual microstutter in BF3, Crysis or Mafia 2. My games are running like butter with 90+FPS mins.
FOURTH: I am running a triple Samsung S27A750 120hz monitor setup, paired with a 3770k & Gigabyte Sniper 3 mobo which is kicking dual Pcie 3.0 16x Pcie lanes.
FIFTH: Do not listen to anybody moan about micro-stutter from the AMD 6000 series GPUS. The AMD 6000 series is crap and is not comparable to the AMD 7000 series. Anybody running a 6000 series crossfire setup needs to slow down on the sexparties and get with the times. AMD can barely support their current gen cards....what makes you think they can do anything for last years model! And no offense to sexparty cause I love his handle lmao.

No offense taken I enjoy a healthy discussion and always hope to learn something even though I am rather stubborn at times.

Unfortunately this is not one of those times I suspect to learn anything because this infomation just re-instates what I've been trying to get at. AMD has a problem with micro-stutter. I have not tried the newest drivers on the HD 7970 but everything I've seen up until a few weeks ago has been consistent with what I've experienced and continue to. With the exception of the GTX 590 which was rubbish Nvidia seems to have a much better grasp on micro-stutter than AMD (although all multi-GPU solutions suffer from it) single or multi-monitor set-up. And for that reason I am wary of AMD products until they solve it. Which time and time again I've said is such a shame because these new AMD cards look soo good.

The HD 7970 is a lot better than previous generations from AMD but still seems to suffer from it more than the GTX 680/GTX 690 and enough that it's noticeable. Not anywhere near as much as the HD 6990 but enough to get flicking textures, give the impression of low FPS and stutter when pushing the cards (always worst in the highest 5% of frames). However in the newst wonder driver who knows if it's been improved or by how much but it has a lot more make up for and improve on than the Nvidia cards.

So I am skeptical.

Here's some proof of how bad the HD 6990 is when it comes to micro-stutter and the full article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22890/7

Notice no microstutter in the single card. Just great perfromance (better than the GTX 680 in FPS mind you).
259

Then a lot in the crossfire set-up.
259

GTX 690s performance is beautiful.
259

HD 6990 is awful! And why even when I'm pushing 100FPS+ it feels like 20-30FPS because the latency between frames can jump to 40ms! 30ms equals 30FPS, so that gives you a good idea of what you'll experience on the screen. The number in the corver of the screen says 120FPS but you'll be feeling 20FPS.
259
Edited by thestache - 6/16/12 at 12:52am
    
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post #114 of 156
Just as I have bought a 7970............though I'm not that fussed as mine is close to that with a stock voltage of 1.049 so I'm thinking these cards wont be much better than mine
post #115 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post

Makes one wonder.... I mean, my Gigabyte GTX 670 OC is running 1344mhz core and +250 mem without issue 24/7 and that's without any volt adjustment and first-run chips. If nVidia could pull out stops with a new revision like AMD seems to be doing... wow.
Indeed, though, this looks like a winner assuming they get their drivers in order by launch, and of course the price is right...!

What drivers? This is the same exact card as the 7970 that is out right now. There is no need for new drivers, and the current drivers for the 7970 as of now are just fine.
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post #116 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexparty View Post

No offense taken I enjoy a healthy discussion and always hope to learn something even though I am rather stubborn at times.
Unfortunately this is not one of those times I suspect to learn anything because this infomation just re-instates what I've been trying to get at. AMD has a problem with micro-stutter. I have not tried the newest drivers on the HD 7970 but everything I've seen up until a few weeks ago has been consistent with what I've experienced and continue to. With the exception of the GTX 590 which was rubbish Nvidia seems to have a much better grasp on micro-stutter than AMD (although all multi-GPU solutions suffer from it) single or multi-monitor set-up. And for that reason I am wary of AMD products until they solve it. Which time and time again I've said is such a shame because these new AMD cards look soo good.
The HD 7970 is a lot better than previous generations from AMD but still seems to suffer from it more than the GTX 680/GTX 690 and enough that it's noticeable. Not anywhere near as much as the HD 6990 but enough to get flicking textures, give the impression of low FPS and stutter when pushing the cards (always worst in the highest 5% of frames). However in the newst wonder driver who knows if it's been improved or by how much but it has a lot more make up for and improve on than the Nvidia cards.
So I am skeptical.
Here's some proof of how bad the HD 6990 is when it comes to micro-stutter and the full article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22890/7
Notice no microstutter in the single card. Just great perfromance (better than the GTX 680 in FPS mind you).
259
Then a lot in the crossfire set-up.
259
GTX 690s performance is beautiful.
259
HD 6990 is awful! And why even when I'm pushing 100FPS+ it feels like 20-30FPS because the latency between frames can jump to 40ms! 30ms equals 30FPS, so that gives you a good idea of what you'll experience on the screen. The number in the corver of the screen says 120FPS but you'll be feeling 20FPS.
259
It's interesting that the frame latency is so low from the first card, and then so high from the second. From 10ms to 25ms consistently.
I'd like to know more about the test method. I might be wrong in my understanding, but if there is infact 15ms difference between the first and second card, that means either frames from one appear before frames on the other card (this would of coarse be very noticable) or, the crossfire config is only able to create 8 frames per second, which would also be very noticable.
I've never experienced anything so extreme on my 6950 setup, so these results seem questionable to me.
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post #117 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

It's interesting that the frame latency is so low from the first card, and then so high from the second. From 10ms to 25ms consistently.
I'd like to know more about the test method. I might be wrong in my understanding, but if there is infact 15ms difference between the first and second card, that means either frames from one appear before frames on the other card (this would of coarse be very noticable) or, the crossfire config is only able to create 8 frames per second, which would also be very noticable.
I've never experienced anything so extreme on my 6950 setup, so these results seem questionable to me.

It's easy, just get fraps and do a frame time benchmark. But then the hard part is making something out of the infomation overload it gives you.

Not really, single GPUs don't suffer from micro stutter but dual GPUs do because it's hard for them to be in perfect sync. It's important enough that the GTX 690 comes with an imbedded controller to handle differences in frame times and smooth them out, hence the great performance it gives you over a traditional dual-GPU set-up and was the main reason I bought one.

AMD just need to arknowledge it's existence and improve it either at a driver level or a hardware level, whatever causes it and be done with it because they are the worst culprits. Ask anyone with an HD 6990 and they should suffer from it a lot, if they say they don't they don't know what they're talking about. Realistically it shouldn't be bad enough to bother you but in a lot of cases it is.

My understanding of micro-stutter is it represents the time between each frame is rendered. A constant 16.7ms interval between frames will equal 60 frames per second. What the HD 7970 cross-fire is doing is the first GPU will render the first frame in around 10ms and the second will render it in around 25ms meaning every second frame your pausing to recieve it on screen, recieving constant speed ups and slow downs and causes a jittery screen and flickering textures. With them not being sent in a consistent timing the screen can not look smooth, it's simply impossible. The extent to how severe it is, is however up to the set-up.

Apply that to something slower like a gun firing, every shot pausing a second then every second shot pause 2, then speed it up and it's going to look retarded. Do the same thing with shots being fired at the same 1 second interval and speed it up and it'll just look like a regular automatic weapon firing.
    
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post #118 of 156
Why do you keep dragging the 6000 series into this? And why do you keep showing that old 6990 microstutter graph? THAT HAS ZERO RELEVANCE TO WHAT IS NOW GOING ON! GAH do you want me to show graphs of how terrible my 8800 ultras were in SLI from 2007???

YES THE LATEST BETA AMD DRIVER IS A WONDER DRIVER FOR THE 7000 SERIES. I was gonna junk my second 7970 and be COMPLETELY DONE WITH AMD multi-gpu until I tried that driver. The June 4th & 12th Beta drivers are phenomenal with crossfire + eyefinity + 7970s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexparty View Post

No offense taken I enjoy a healthy discussion and always hope to learn something even though I am rather stubborn at times.
Unfortunately this is not one of those times I suspect to learn anything because this infomation just re-instates what I've been trying to get at. AMD has a problem with micro-stutter. I have not tried the newest drivers on the HD 7970 but everything I've seen up until a few weeks ago has been consistent with what I've experienced and continue to. With the exception of the GTX 590 which was rubbish Nvidia seems to have a much better grasp on micro-stutter than AMD (although all multi-GPU solutions suffer from it) single or multi-monitor set-up. And for that reason I am wary of AMD products until they solve it. Which time and time again I've said is such a shame because these new AMD cards look soo good.
The HD 7970 is a lot better than previous generations from AMD but still seems to suffer from it more than the GTX 680/GTX 690 and enough that it's noticeable. Not anywhere near as much as the HD 6990 but enough to get flicking textures, give the impression of low FPS and stutter when pushing the cards (always worst in the highest 5% of frames). However in the newst wonder driver who knows if it's been improved or by how much but it has a lot more make up for and improve on than the Nvidia cards.
So I am skeptical.
Here's some proof of how bad the HD 6990 is when it comes to micro-stutter and the full article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22890/7
Notice no microstutter in the single card. Just great perfromance (better than the GTX 680 in FPS mind you).
259
Then a lot in the crossfire set-up.
259
GTX 690s performance is beautiful.
259
HD 6990 is awful! And why even when I'm pushing 100FPS+ it feels like 20-30FPS because the latency between frames can jump to 40ms! 30ms equals 30FPS, so that gives you a good idea of what you'll experience on the screen. The number in the corver of the screen says 120FPS but you'll be feeling 20FPS.
259
post #119 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by l88bastar View Post

Why do you keep dragging the 6000 series into this? And why do you keep showing that old 6990 microstutter graph? THAT HAS ZERO RELEVANCE TO WHAT IS NOW GOING ON! GAH do you want me to show graphs of how terrible my 8800 ultras were in SLI from 2007???
YES THE LATEST BETA AMD DRIVER IS A WONDER DRIVER FOR THE 7000 SERIES. I was gonna junk my second 7970 and be COMPLETELY DONE WITH AMD multi-gpu until I tried that driver. The June 4th & 12th Beta drivers are phenomenal with crossfire + eyefinity + 7970s.

It's relative and if you can't see it/don't like being taken to school it isn't my problem.

Worst graphics card with micro-stutter I've ever seen or used, AMD HD 6990 (part of the HD 6000 series). The very next flagship card they release/produce, suffers from the same problem whilst it's competator does not. They are about to release a new dual GPU card which if not addressed will suffer from it more, because dual GPUs always do. Seems relative to me. It was a problem then, is now and nothing will change with the HD 7990 if not addressed by their design team.

If the new beta driver is soo great, show me how it's improved HD 7970s in crossfire and how it's magically dissapeared and fixed something thats been going on a long time. Otherwise go CAPS lock at someone else.
    
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Koolance OD3 Quick Disconnect Male Compression Koolance OD3 Quick Disconnect Female G1/4 Threaded EK Acetal Clean Supremacy Block XSPC RX360 Radiator 
OtherOtherOther
XSPC Acrylic Tank Reservior/Pump Top XSPC RX360 Radiator  Koolance 450S D5 Pump 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4770k Gigabyte Z87X OC  Gigabyte GTX Titan Gskill Ripjaws 2400mhz 16GB 4x4GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Corsair Force GS 240GB Western Digital Velociraptor 320GB EK GTX Titan Acetal Copper FC Block with Backplate EK Monarch DIMM Module heatspreaders 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK X3 Reservoir 150 EK Gigabyte Z87 X OC Acetal Copper Block EK Monarch X4 Copper Acetal Block with clean top Windows 8 64-Bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Dell U2412M Dell U2412M Dell U2412M Razer BlackWidow 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX1200i Custome Acetal case CNC Machined from 8mm sheet  Razer Mamba Razer Ironclad 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Corsair Individually Sleeved Cables Koolance 90deg Elbows  Monsoon Compression Fittings Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition PWM Fans 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Koolance OD3 Quick Disconnect Male Compression Koolance OD3 Quick Disconnect Female G1/4 Threaded EK Acetal Clean Supremacy Block XSPC RX360 Radiator 
OtherOtherOther
XSPC Acrylic Tank Reservior/Pump Top XSPC RX360 Radiator  Koolance 450S D5 Pump 
  hide details  
post #120 of 156
Who cares about the 6990? That was last generation bro. Not a very classy way to argue.
Blue
(23 items)
 
Dirty 6
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @ 5.0ghz HT  MSI z77 gd 65  2x Asus DirectCU 7970 @ 1300/1775 16gb Gskill 2400 @ 10-12-11-30  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
2xCorsair Gt 120gb Raid 0 2tb HDD (2x1tb [ Raid 0 ]64mb cache) 500gb HDD Custom Watercooling Loop 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC 750 XSPC Raystorm 240mm Radiator Stealth 120mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
140mm Radiator HyperX Dual Ram Fan Cooler 7 x Artic F12 Case Fans Custom Sleeved in White... Xigamatek 4-in-3 HDD 5.25 to 3.5 bay. 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 64bit 3 x 21.5in Led 1080p Eyefinity Corsair K90  750 Evo Blue 
CaseMouse
Haf 932 Ikari Laser & Rat 7 & Deathadder & Laichesis 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Amd 8350 @ 4.5 stock voltage MSI 890GXM-gd65 Asus DCII GTX 660 16gb Gskill DDR3 1600@ 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
120GB revo drive None Sycthe Big Shuriken 2 Modded Titan TTC-HDC4 HDD 
OSPowerCase
Window 7 64bit  750w Evo Blue Modular PSU White Silverstone Sugo sg02 
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Blue
(23 items)
 
Dirty 6
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @ 5.0ghz HT  MSI z77 gd 65  2x Asus DirectCU 7970 @ 1300/1775 16gb Gskill 2400 @ 10-12-11-30  
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
2xCorsair Gt 120gb Raid 0 2tb HDD (2x1tb [ Raid 0 ]64mb cache) 500gb HDD Custom Watercooling Loop 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC 750 XSPC Raystorm 240mm Radiator Stealth 120mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
140mm Radiator HyperX Dual Ram Fan Cooler 7 x Artic F12 Case Fans Custom Sleeved in White... Xigamatek 4-in-3 HDD 5.25 to 3.5 bay. 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 64bit 3 x 21.5in Led 1080p Eyefinity Corsair K90  750 Evo Blue 
CaseMouse
Haf 932 Ikari Laser & Rat 7 & Deathadder & Laichesis 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Amd 8350 @ 4.5 stock voltage MSI 890GXM-gd65 Asus DCII GTX 660 16gb Gskill DDR3 1600@ 8-8-8-24 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
120GB revo drive None Sycthe Big Shuriken 2 Modded Titan TTC-HDC4 HDD 
OSPowerCase
Window 7 64bit  750w Evo Blue Modular PSU White Silverstone Sugo sg02 
  hide details  
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition "Tahiti XT2" Detailed