Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition "Tahiti XT2" Detailed
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition "Tahiti XT2" Detailed - Page 15  

post #141 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I've noticed no micro stutter with my 7970's whatsoever. It's the most overblown placebo effect on the interwebs in my opinion...

The only time i have stutter such as this is if i don't have high fps with vsync off or lower than 60fps when vsync is on.
X79 CFX
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 3930K 4.5GHz HT GA-X79-UP4 Powercolor V3 7970 CFX G-Skill Ripjaws-X 4x4GB 1.6GHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB x2 LG-Light Scribe Corsair H100i P/P NF F12 (x4) 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-A4x10 x2 (VRM's) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Samsung P2770 27" Corsair Vengence K90 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-860 Platinum Xigmatek Alysium Logitech G400 On-Board HD 
  hide details  
X79 CFX
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 3930K 4.5GHz HT GA-X79-UP4 Powercolor V3 7970 CFX G-Skill Ripjaws-X 4x4GB 1.6GHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB x2 LG-Light Scribe Corsair H100i P/P NF F12 (x4) 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-A4x10 x2 (VRM's) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Samsung P2770 27" Corsair Vengence K90 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-860 Platinum Xigmatek Alysium Logitech G400 On-Board HD 
  hide details  
post #142 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexparty View Post

No offense taken I enjoy a healthy discussion and always hope to learn something even though I am rather stubborn at times.
Unfortunately this is not one of those times I suspect to learn anything because this infomation just re-instates what I've been trying to get at. AMD has a problem with micro-stutter. I have not tried the newest drivers on the HD 7970 but everything I've seen up until a few weeks ago has been consistent with what I've experienced and continue to. With the exception of the GTX 590 which was rubbish Nvidia seems to have a much better grasp on micro-stutter than AMD (although all multi-GPU solutions suffer from it) single or multi-monitor set-up. And for that reason I am wary of AMD products until they solve it. Which time and time again I've said is such a shame because these new AMD cards look soo good.
The HD 7970 is a lot better than previous generations from AMD but still seems to suffer from it more than the GTX 680/GTX 690 and enough that it's noticeable. Not anywhere near as much as the HD 6990 but enough to get flicking textures, give the impression of low FPS and stutter when pushing the cards (always worst in the highest 5% of frames). However in the newst wonder driver who knows if it's been improved or by how much but it has a lot more make up for and improve on than the Nvidia cards.
So I am skeptical.
Here's some proof of how bad the HD 6990 is when it comes to micro-stutter and the full article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22890/7
Notice no microstutter in the single card. Just great perfromance (better than the GTX 680 in FPS mind you).
259
Then a lot in the crossfire set-up.
259
GTX 690s performance is beautiful.
259
HD 6990 is awful! And why even when I'm pushing 100FPS+ it feels like 20-30FPS because the latency between frames can jump to 40ms! 30ms equals 30FPS, so that gives you a good idea of what you'll experience on the screen. The number in the corver of the screen says 120FPS but you'll be feeling 20FPS.
259

Does one game prove anything?
Also GTX590 has a huge problem with microstuttering, not 6990 only.
To bad they've got few games for benching.
240
240AA in single is weird.
240
240

avg fps in BF3, interesting
240
post #143 of 156
I wouldn't put much faith in this. Frame latency isn't an accurate indicator of microstutter, although its pretty clear that the previous author (sexparty) was cherry picking results to suit a particular argument.

Like others have said, cayman was bad about MS but really I could not detect any back when I was using my former 7970CF setup.
post #144 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post

The only time i have stutter such as this is if i don't have high fps with vsync off or lower than 60fps when vsync is on.

Yeah me too. I've noticed plenty of stutter in 3dmark11 with a single 580 but that was at like 15fps...
Night Fury
(19 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3960X C2 (5 GHz) Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2 x EVGA GTX Titan SC in SLI Patriot Viper Xtreme 2133MHz (4 x 4GB)  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Force 3 240GB  Intel 320 160GB  Hitachi Deskstar 1TB Samsung Blu-ray player 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Supreme HF EK RIVE Blocks 2 x EK FC Titan  2 x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX Extreme rads (5... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Alphacool VPP655 D5 pump with Bitspower pump to... Windows 8 Pro 2 x Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSB Microsoft Sidewinder X6 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX1200 Silverstone TJ11 Corsair M60  
  hide details  
Night Fury
(19 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3960X C2 (5 GHz) Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2 x EVGA GTX Titan SC in SLI Patriot Viper Xtreme 2133MHz (4 x 4GB)  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Force 3 240GB  Intel 320 160GB  Hitachi Deskstar 1TB Samsung Blu-ray player 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Supreme HF EK RIVE Blocks 2 x EK FC Titan  2 x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX Extreme rads (5... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Alphacool VPP655 D5 pump with Bitspower pump to... Windows 8 Pro 2 x Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSB Microsoft Sidewinder X6 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX1200 Silverstone TJ11 Corsair M60  
  hide details  
post #145 of 156
I notice microstutter but only when I'm under 60FPS. That has a lot to do with the fact that the framerate is not synced with the refresh rate as well but it is definitely worse with two cards then one under 60. Have not noticed any difference between AMD or Nvidia however. Could be I'm just not as sensitive as some. Some people don't even notice tearing. Some people can play at 45FPS all day long. For me as long as the framerate is vsynced to either 30 or 60 I'm generally good.
OP MicroATX build
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K Asus Pz68m pro EVGA GTX GTX 670 Corsair 8GB 1600 Vengence 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial M4 Raid 0 Crucial M4 Raid 0 WD Data Drive LG Blu-Ray 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Seasonic X series 750 gold Define Mini 
  hide details  
OP MicroATX build
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K Asus Pz68m pro EVGA GTX GTX 670 Corsair 8GB 1600 Vengence 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial M4 Raid 0 Crucial M4 Raid 0 WD Data Drive LG Blu-Ray 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Antec Kuhler 920 Seasonic X series 750 gold Define Mini 
  hide details  
post #146 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyreal View Post

Odd, I don't see an HD6950 Toxic in there smile.gif

Odd, i dont detect any fanboyism. You clearly have made a very good argument on why the Toxic is the best edition of the card you have. I am absolutely blown away.
 
Simba
(16 items)
 
Gulftown Memories
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @4.8Ghz 1.4v Gigabyte Z77X-UP5-TH MSI TF3 7950 @1200 [MAIN]/EVGA Sig+ 680 [DEAD] 16GB (4x4GB) Mushkin Blackline Ridgebacks 1866 ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
128GB Crucial M4 Seagate Barracuda 3TB 7200.14 2TB Western Digital Red 1TB Western Digital Caviar Green 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
ASUS DVD R/RW SATA x24 EK Supremacy Acetal+Nickel Swiftech MCP35X Swiftech MCRes 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Black Ice GT240 2x 1850rpm Scythe Gentle Typhoons Windows 8 Pro Dell S2740 27 Inch IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Keyboard NZXT Hale90 1000W Antec P280 Steelseries Sensei 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Steelseries QCK Mini Fiio E9 to Asus Xonar DX (headphone amp AND DAC) Sennheiser HD598 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 5GHz 1.43V Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP4 TB MSI Twinfrozr III 7870 2x4GB Samsung Wonder Ram 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Caviar Blue, 640GB Caviar Blue 2x2TB Western Digital Reds coming Prolimatech Megahalems w/ 2x San Ace H1011's pu... 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8 Pro 32 inch Toshiba LCD, 24 inch Dell ST2412L Coolermaster Quickfire Rapid Antec Truepower New 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec P280 Razer Deathadder 1800dpi frankenstein! just hdmi audio to the tv for now 
  hide details  
 
Simba
(16 items)
 
Gulftown Memories
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @4.8Ghz 1.4v Gigabyte Z77X-UP5-TH MSI TF3 7950 @1200 [MAIN]/EVGA Sig+ 680 [DEAD] 16GB (4x4GB) Mushkin Blackline Ridgebacks 1866 ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
128GB Crucial M4 Seagate Barracuda 3TB 7200.14 2TB Western Digital Red 1TB Western Digital Caviar Green 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
ASUS DVD R/RW SATA x24 EK Supremacy Acetal+Nickel Swiftech MCP35X Swiftech MCRes 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Black Ice GT240 2x 1850rpm Scythe Gentle Typhoons Windows 8 Pro Dell S2740 27 Inch IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Das Keyboard NZXT Hale90 1000W Antec P280 Steelseries Sensei 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Steelseries QCK Mini Fiio E9 to Asus Xonar DX (headphone amp AND DAC) Sennheiser HD598 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 5GHz 1.43V Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP4 TB MSI Twinfrozr III 7870 2x4GB Samsung Wonder Ram 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Caviar Blue, 640GB Caviar Blue 2x2TB Western Digital Reds coming Prolimatech Megahalems w/ 2x San Ace H1011's pu... 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8 Pro 32 inch Toshiba LCD, 24 inch Dell ST2412L Coolermaster Quickfire Rapid Antec Truepower New 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec P280 Razer Deathadder 1800dpi frankenstein! just hdmi audio to the tv for now 
  hide details  
post #147 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexparty View Post

It's easy, just get fraps and do a frame time benchmark. But then the hard part is making something out of the infomation overload it gives you.
Not really, single GPUs don't suffer from micro stutter but dual GPUs do because it's hard for them to be in perfect sync. It's important enough that the GTX 690 comes with an imbedded controller to handle differences in frame times and smooth them out, hence the great performance it gives you over a traditional dual-GPU set-up and was the main reason I bought one.
AMD just need to arknowledge it's existence and improve it either at a driver level or a hardware level, whatever causes it and be done with it because they are the worst culprits. Ask anyone with an HD 6990 and they should suffer from it a lot, if they say they don't they don't know what they're talking about. Realistically it shouldn't be bad enough to bother you but in a lot of cases it is.
My understanding of micro-stutter is it represents the time between each frame is rendered. A constant 16.7ms interval between frames will equal 60 frames per second. What the HD 7970 cross-fire is doing is the first GPU will render the first frame in around 10ms and the second will render it in around 25ms meaning every second frame your pausing to recieve it on screen, recieving constant speed ups and slow downs and causes a jittery screen and flickering textures. With them not being sent in a consistent timing the screen can not look smooth, it's simply impossible. The extent to how severe it is, is however up to the set-up.
Apply that to something slower like a gun firing, every shot pausing a second then every second shot pause 2, then speed it up and it's going to look retarded. Do the same thing with shots being fired at the same 1 second interval and speed it up and it'll just look like a regular automatic weapon firing.
This must not effect all builds. I'm running a 6950 and an unlocked 6950 at different clocks on core/memory, and I have been for about a year (prior I was running them both as 6970's, but I reflashed the other one to a 6950 just incase the theory about long term effects of unlocking on VRAM were infact true.) Anyway, they do and always have run smooth as butter. If it does infact always take 25ms for one card to produce a frame while the other takes 15ms, it would be impossible for AMD cards in crossfire to exceed ~66FPS. This of coarse is not the case.
I'd suspect that the results vary depending on the games tested, and system configuration, and probably even the game settings. That makes me suspicious about the test method/pool. I know I haven't experienced it, personally. I've heard both AMD and nV users complain about microstutter, so I just find it hard to accept what you're using those graphs to propose.


Edit: I just did a two minute test in fraps with Skyrim at 2560 on Ultra and skimmed through the results. The frametimes were between 20ms and 22ms very consistantly. There was a single framerate pitfall that caused a dip below 10FPS and with it, a frame time dip from 10-61ms. I think I might make a thread for this so people can post their results and prove this ongoing "AMD stuttering" issue one way or the other for good.
Edited by Mookster - 6/17/12 at 5:54am
Raven Haven.
(14 items)
 
 
G73JH-A1
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD 965BE 125W Asus M4A77D Asus 5770 Cucore 4GB Kingston 800MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSKeyboard
2x750GB Seagates 22x LG DVD-RW w7 Ultimate 64-bit  G15 
PowerCase
Antec Earthwatts 430W 80+ Antec New Solution NSK6580B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
720QM AsusTek Mobility HD5870 8GB Kingston 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB C300/500GB Seagate Bluray Combo w7 Ultimate 64-bit 17'' 1080P 
Case
G73JH-A1 
  hide details  
Raven Haven.
(14 items)
 
 
G73JH-A1
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD 965BE 125W Asus M4A77D Asus 5770 Cucore 4GB Kingston 800MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSKeyboard
2x750GB Seagates 22x LG DVD-RW w7 Ultimate 64-bit  G15 
PowerCase
Antec Earthwatts 430W 80+ Antec New Solution NSK6580B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
720QM AsusTek Mobility HD5870 8GB Kingston 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB C300/500GB Seagate Bluray Combo w7 Ultimate 64-bit 17'' 1080P 
Case
G73JH-A1 
  hide details  
post #148 of 156
Comparison of AMD 7970 (@1100 MHZ) to Nvidia 680

AMD 7970 is faster in 15 games out of 18 & this is with catalyst 12.4 drivers

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/amd_radeon_hd_7970_ghz_edition_tahiti_2/index29.php?dummy=&advancedFilter=false&prod%5B%5D=NVIDIA+GeForce+GTX+680&prod%5B%5D=AMD+Radeon+HD+7970+%5BGPU%3A+1100+MHz%5D&filter%5B0%5D%5B%5D=1920&filter%5B0%5D%5B%5D=2560&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=1&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=2x2+SSAA&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=2x2+SSAA+%2B+MLAA&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=4&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=8&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=FXAA+-+hoch&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=MLAA&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=Post+AA&filter%5B3%5D%5B%5D=16&aa=all

In 12.6 beta drivers Skyrim performance is improved quite a bit. So it will be 16-2 in favour of GHz Edition

Detailed Preview:

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/amd_radeon_hd_7970_ghz_edition_tahiti_2/

Even the stock 7970 is 5% faster than 680 by winning in 13 games as compared to Nvidia 680 winning in 5 & people say 680 is faster
post #149 of 156
7970 still uses more power than the 680...~25% more
Edited by Bitech - 6/18/12 at 4:45pm
post #150 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

7970 still uses more power than the 680...~25% more

ok, and?
La-MenorFX
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8150 M5A97 XFX R7950 BE Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 128GB SSD Western Digital WD Green 1TB Lite On DVDRW Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 AOC E2752VH 27inch CM Storm QuickFire Rapid Black Switches OCZ 600W StealthXStream 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair 600t SE (White) Steelseries Kinzu V2 White SteelSeries QcK 
  hide details  
La-MenorFX
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8150 M5A97 XFX R7950 BE Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 128GB SSD Western Digital WD Green 1TB Lite On DVDRW Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 AOC E2752VH 27inch CM Storm QuickFire Rapid Black Switches OCZ 600W StealthXStream 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair 600t SE (White) Steelseries Kinzu V2 White SteelSeries QcK 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TPU] AMD Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition "Tahiti XT2" Detailed