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AMD's Quad cores have large advantages over Kentsfield - Page 13

post #121 of 148
Yea but what Alk is saying is completely implausible. AMD can't wait around and drink a few beers until Intel releases a quad core and then say 'oh geez coworkers, there it is' and then go about re-working intel's chip. They have to have their own design way before Intel releases a chip and they have to be working on their own chip before Intel releases their own chip to the point that when Intel does release their own chip AMD can't simply re-work anything and come out on top.
The 4x4 seems ridiculously expensive to me...I mean how much could a quad core Kenstfield cost for a mid-range e6400 flavor? $500? and if you have a core2 motherboard, thats ALL you need.... $500 and youve upped your performance 70% over the already blazing Core2 CPU's (according to intel the quads will be 70% faster). WAY cheaper than AMD's possible scenario.
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post #122 of 148
C2q
Qx6700- $1000+
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post #123 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeegle View Post
Yea but what Alk is saying is completely implausible. AMD can't wait around and drink a few beers until Intel releases a quad core and then say 'oh geez coworkers, there it is' and then go about re-working intel's chip. They have to have their own design way before Intel releases a chip and they have to be working on their own chip before Intel releases their own chip to the point that when Intel does release their own chip AMD can't simply re-work anything and come out on top.
The 4x4 seems ridiculously expensive to me...I mean how much could a quad core Kenstfield cost for a mid-range e6400 flavor? $500? and if you have a core2 motherboard, thats ALL you need.... $500 and youve upped your performance 70% over the already blazing Core2 CPU's (according to intel the quads will be 70% faster). WAY cheaper than AMD's possible scenario.

They ARNT reworking anything. You all dont know what Alk is getting at... Read his post carefully and it will make sense. He's saying period, that AMD has always been "later" than intel but releases a chip that usually beats out Intel by quite a bit. Intel finally gets this and has sped up the spead which they release chips, notice they have alot more plans in store for the next 2 years than they have in the past like 5 . They are finally getting it that AMD is going to eventually take them down unless they do what they have been doing, which is speeding up their plans. To anyone who says that Intel is pounding on AMD right now, then why is AMD keep gaining market share, especially in the mobile department? Heck, AMD since getting Dell has been having a hard time producing enough chips to spread across OEM's and online retailers.

And the Intel Quad Cores are definately not gonna cost like $500, that would make them undercut the Dual Core Core 2's by too much.
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post #124 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom View Post
ALK does not have a point, he pretty much said AMD sits and waits until Intel makes a move first and takes their design and improves on it. Thats not how it works. The only reason(s) AMD is behind is because they're nowhere near as big as Intel, they don't have Intel's R&D capabilities nor do they have as many Fabs

Might I remind everyone that Rev.H taped out back in August, AMD doesn't have the time to back to the drawing boards after the release of Kentsfield to "fix" anything
Actually, AMD don't sit and wait! There design is different than Intels sa there 939 put that point across and Intel had to make up ground.
Actually, Intel receintly aquired desigh tech from AMD solelly because Intel could not make a true 32/64 bit CPU
No, AMD don't have the FABs but there expanding and even soon to break ground on a fab in New York.
Eventhough I prefer AMD, Intel has some great stuff too!
    
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post #125 of 148
Jori is right, I can see where the confusion from alk's post comes from, but he was not being literal and saying AMD "copies" Intel, merely that they see the PERFORMANCE the Intel puts out and any problems associated with the basic layout (how 2 cores talk, or 4 cores talk to each other, ect) and they tweak their own design to outpace the Intel.

The problem with this strategy, which has been working, is that now Intel is rapid firing new CPUs out the door. 2-3 months after Core 2 Duo, they are releasing Core 2 Quad.....6-8 months after that, they plan Core 2 Quad on a die shrink to 45nm.....6-8 months after that they plan a new Quad core on the 45nm platform, 6-8 months after that they plan on Octo Cores, ect, ect.......

AMD can no longer sit back and see what they have to beat, they no longer have pleanty of time to tweak and polish their design.....if they do, their new chip will be faster than the last Intel, but no one will buy it, because the next Intel is just 2 months away and faster......

AMD is going to have to change their strategy, and they will, they are not going to fade away, and when they do it's going to make the computer market crazy. A good crazy. A crazy where we benefit and reap the spoils of the CPU war.


Oh, and there are no plans for a $500 Core 2 Quad on the 6300 or 6400 platform. Only the Conroe cores are being used for C2Q, and they will be in the $800+ range.....so depending on the motherboard selection and cost, 4x4 could compete in price.......although C2Q has the benefit of dropping into many exsisting motherboards.....
post #126 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Jori is right, I can see where the confusion from alk's post comes from, but he was not being literal and saying AMD "copies" Intel, merely that they see the PERFORMANCE the Intel puts out and any problems associated with the basic layout (how 2 cores talk, or 4 cores talk to each other, ect) and they tweak their own design to outpace the Intel.

The problem with this strategy, which has been working, is that now Intel is rapid firing new CPUs out the door. 2-3 months after Core 2 Duo, they are releasing Core 2 Quad.....6-8 months after that, they plan Core 2 Quad on a die shrink to 45nm.....6-8 months after that they plan a new Quad core on the 45nm platform, 6-8 months after that they plan on Octo Cores, ect, ect.......

AMD can no longer sit back and see what they have to beat, they no longer have pleanty of time to tweak and polish their design.....if they do, their new chip will be faster than the last Intel, but no one will buy it, because the next Intel is just 2 months away and faster......

AMD is going to have to change their strategy, and they will, they are not going to fade away, and when they do it's going to make the computer market crazy. A good crazy. A crazy where we benefit and reap the spoils of the CPU war.
Well the thing is, they have their K8L planned for 2h'07 which is also true quad core, and they have K10 planned for 2008. So with Intel speeding up their transitions, so is AMD. AMD has gained alot of support, last time I checked they had 50% of the US server market, and im sure that number has even risen more. AMD's scale better because of HT and other new features on Socket F, and companies like them. Plus IBM themselves has bought (or are going to buy soon) 16,000 Opterons for the fastest super computer in the world, pairing 16000 Opterons and 16000 Cell processors using Torrenza.
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post #127 of 148
YES. I love sparking debate!

Anyway, on topic. For those of you who misunderstood waht i was saying, I was reffering to AMD always releasing a superior processing/computing solution (ie CPU) compared to Intels latest release. NOT that AMD essentially copy Intel chips step by step and tweak them a bit! That would be called Plagourism (or however you spell it)

As far as I understand, AMD had a team of something like 13 designers working on the K8 series. Think about that for a moment. Thats not alot of people. I remember hearing it in an AMD press conference video which I have trailed the net for and cannot find. (Correct me if my numbers are out by a marginal ammount!)

The rate at which Intel is releasing new Processors is now phenomenal. Compared to the time the Pentium 4 was on the market for (Around about 4 years+) Thus AMD are taking their time releasing new CPUs. however, the exact science of creating faster and smaller CPUs is the same for all major vendors of microsprocessors, and unless the technology is there to fabricate chips at small faster speeds, neither company will outperform each other by any great deal. The situation companies find themselves in is a battle to come up with a superior design and then patent this design and make profit. AMD has perhaps been the wiser holding off and following in intels footsteps releasing CPUs with buzzwords like "Dual Core" etc, etc. However, Intel has always seemingly been at the forefront of technology, being the first to use buzz words. AMD releases products later once all the hype has died down, but having spent that extra bit of timeat the design process figuring out the best way to squeeze every last drop of performance out of the latest technological advancements in microelectronics and semiconductors.

I just get the impression that intels main selling point up till now as been getting the latest technology out there ASAP. Look at the Core2, how many people raced out and bought core2's when they realised that it was superior to AMD's top of the line at the time, yet ageing FX-60?! This forum is living proof that intels strategy also works. And the reason we buy core2? Because AMD has not released a competitor (Although some may argue that AM2 is the equivalent CPU package) and we are buying the latest, and best performing chips money can buy. What will happen if AMD release a superior CPU package? I can foresee eBay swarmed with Core2 listings right now.

This just proves that both AMD and Intels marketing strategys work very well. Personally, Ill not be upgrading my CPU for a looong time. There comes a point where you have to say enough is enough, and stick with what youve got. As an engineer, Im inclined to the frame of thought, "If it aint broken, don't fix it" or replace it in this matter. Fair enough, OC'ing is the equivalent of a free lunhc. Extra performance at the tweak of a few settings and a small (Or possibly large) investment in cooling!

Perhaps Im just a skint-flint!
    
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post #128 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori View Post
They ARNT reworking anything. You all dont know what Alk is getting at... Read his post carefully and it will make sense. He's saying period, that AMD has always been "later" than intel but releases a chip that usually beats out Intel by quite a bit. Intel finally gets this and has sped up the spead which they release chips, notice they have alot more plans in store for the next 2 years than they have in the past like 5 . They are finally getting it that AMD is going to eventually take them down unless they do what they have been doing, which is speeding up their plans. To anyone who says that Intel is pounding on AMD right now, then why is AMD keep gaining market share, especially in the mobile department? Heck, AMD since getting Dell has been having a hard time producing enough chips to spread across OEM's and online retailers.

And the Intel Quad Cores are definately not gonna cost like $500, that would make them undercut the Dual Core Core 2's by too much.
Finally someone who gets it .
post #129 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk View Post
.. There comes a point where you have to say enough is enough, and stick with what youve got. As an engineer, Im inclined to the frame of thought, "If it aint broken, don't fix it" or replace it in this matter...
Of course. Im not upgrading until the 22 nm days (about 5 years ahead according to Intels roadmap). It'll save me a lot of money in the long run. Just let the companies have at it for a bit, no need to be cutting edge when you don't need to be.
post #130 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwnjohnson View Post
Of course. Im not upgrading until the 22 nm days (about 5 years ahead according to Intels roadmap). It'll save me a lot of money in the long run. Just let the companies have at it for a bit, no need to be cutting edge when you don't need to be.
EXACTLY! Id rather sit back and watch the debate fly as Intel and AMD fight it out producing the product Ill be buying in x years time!

The AMD Vs Intel saga is a long and interesting one!
    
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