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[Escapist] John Carmack "Not Excited" by Next-Gen Consoles - Page 2

post #11 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post

That would be freaking awesome,
and the next consoles should have a lifepsan close to 10-12 years unless we have some amazing advancement in visual tech (4K anyone?!?!) in the near future.
If anyone but Carmack did that people will bring up the Virtual boy joke.
post #12 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abs.exe View Post

We don't like the fact that we will ahve to update our engine... It will cost millions.

Well, they didn't release the Tech 5 engine for licensing...so it would be just internal work they would need to do. ID got eaten by Bethesda (Zenimax or what ever it is called) and I think their engine making days are pretty much done...at least for non-Bethesda games.
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post #13 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post

As long as developers/inventors stick to the ground rule of the game controls - the fewer movements the better - the next few years should be interesting. It seems developers are trying extremely hard to break away from the "brick with buttons" model (which has worked perfectly well over the last 20 years), only to end up with something horribly clunky/gimmicky and realizing that gamepads/mice are still by far the most best controls. Why? Because the player can play the game with minimal effort and no input delay. That is the entire pont of game controls being intuitive, you shouldn't be fighting with the controls instead of playing the game.

Here's an example of excellent controls - when I'm playing a first person shooter with my mouse, I often forget that I'm even holding a mouse! My hand effectively becomes my gun, the camera becomes my eyes, it instantly points to wherever I want it to point. There is zero input lag (<5ms), it's extremely responsive and I can play for hours without suffering any pain because my hand is nice and rested on a comfy mousepad the whole time.

In contrast to this, we have stuff like Wii and Kinect. Huge input delay like everything is struggling to keep up with your movements. The complete opposite of relaxation or efficiency, making you jump and wave around. Perhaps it's an attractive option for very young kids (or maybe not, my nephew plays his PS2 all day and never touches the Wii we gifted him - he's 10 years old) or people who are 100% unfamliar with gaming (like grandparents). But as for the gamers themselves who are familiar with the best controls (gamepad/mouse) it's just a huge step backwards. Will trying to wrench virtual reality into gaming have the same result?

I'm really looking forward to the next Xbox and what Microsoft has in mind with Windows 8 in relation to the Xbox...I just hope developers/innovators can get their act together and create something that can genuinely replace old-fashioned controls - if they can't, please focus on making the games better with deep stories, characters, quality, gameplay, etc etc! Gamepad/mouse/keyboard for life.

Well said! Rep+

It appears to me that the Wii and Kinect are mainly good at advertising, I mean, look at how fun it looks when you watch someone play, and then compare it with looking at someone who is sitting at a desk playing with a mouse and keyboard. The first looks a lot more fun, in spite of the not obvious at first glance fact that the second situation is where people may actually be having more fun and not getting so tired.

As to the OT: I'm not impressed by RAGE, which was supposed to show what id could do with current technology. So how am I supposed to take Carmack seriously ? He did a game where the designers had to make so many compromises for the consoles that he had to admit they didn't even have higher resolution original art for the game, and hence the fact that the latest update to the game for the PC only added image enhancement techniques instead of higher resolution textures. There is no tessellation, the sky is a photograph, and you have a fixed camera when driving vehicles (unlike GTA IV where you can move the mouse around for a more cinematic experience and also to have more control of the game), the character animation transition between idle and talking to you was sometimes not smooth and the mouse moved too fast in some menus, just like in the game Dead Space (where the mouse moved too fast in all the menus, unless you slowed it down, but then it would move too slow in the game itself).
Edited by tpi2007 - 6/21/12 at 9:02am
 
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post #14 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post

As long as developers/inventors stick to the ground rule of the game controls - the fewer movements the better - the next few years should be interesting. It seems developers are trying extremely hard to break away from the "brick with buttons" model (which has worked perfectly well over the last 20 years), only to end up with something horribly clunky/gimmicky and realizing that gamepads/mice are still by far the most best controls. Why? Because the player can play the game with minimal effort and no input delay. That is the entire pont of game controls being intuitive, you shouldn't be fighting with the controls instead of playing the game.

Here's an example of excellent controls - when I'm playing a first person shooter with my mouse, I often forget that I'm even holding a mouse! My hand effectively becomes my gun, the camera becomes my eyes, it instantly points to wherever I want it to point. There is zero input lag (<5ms), it's extremely responsive and I can play for hours without suffering any pain because my hand is nice and rested on a comfy mousepad the whole time.

In contrast to this, we have stuff like Wii and Kinect. Huge input delay like everything is struggling to keep up with your movements. The complete opposite of relaxation or efficiency, making you jump and wave around. Perhaps it's an attractive option for very young kids (or maybe not, my nephew plays his PS2 all day and never touches the Wii we gifted him - he's 10 years old) or people who are 100% unfamliar with gaming (like grandparents). But as for the gamers themselves who are familiar with the best controls (gamepad/mouse) it's just a huge step backwards. Will trying to wrench virtual reality into gaming have the same result?

I'm really looking forward to the next Xbox and what Microsoft has in mind with Windows 8 in relation to the Xbox...I just hope developers/innovators can get their act together and create something that can genuinely replace old-fashioned controls - if they can't, please focus on making the games better with deep stories, characters, quality, gameplay, etc etc! Gamepad/mouse/keyboard for life.

I agree completely. I love the Metroid Prime series, but the Wii version was extremely difficult for me to get used to, and just felt very laggy in terms of movement. I still enjoyed the game but I would've rather have played it on a dual-analog control. Different for the sake of being different isn't good enough, something should only be changed if it is improved upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abs.exe View Post

We don't like the fact that we will ahve to update our engine... It will cost millions.

I'm willing to bet that iD Tech 5 can easily take advantage of the next-gen consoles. John Carmack isn't stupid, he definitely designed the tech to scale up easily to take advantage of more cores and better hardware.
Edited by lordikon - 6/21/12 at 9:10am
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post #15 of 118
I have to agree with Carmack. Next gen consoles don't excite me either. Consoles in general don't excite me anymore. Anyone wanna buy a slightly used Xbox 360 Slim?
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post #16 of 118
so john Carmack is "Not Excited" by Next-Gen Consoles

maybe he should play pc then, with crap ports like RAGE, that will definitely cheer him up
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post #17 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixor View Post

so john Carmack is "Not Excited" by Next-Gen Consoles
maybe he should play pc then, with crap ports like RAGE, that will definitely cheer him up
Agreed. Rage is the worst game I've played in probably 10 years (dead island is a close second). Good idea, horrifying execution.
    
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post #18 of 118
Rage was okay as a game, but the crashing and driver issues were retarded. I had a good time playing it..........when it worked.
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post #19 of 118
John Carmack "not excited" because he doesn't know what to do with the horsepower.
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post #20 of 118

And proof that John Carmack is increasingly not relevant in today's gaming. What crazy talk. Pfft, we have a LLLOOONNNNGGGGG way to go with gaming.
 
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