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[OFFICIAL] ROG Maximus V Owners Club - Page 224

post #2231 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimly View Post

Lol, I recommended that H220 to a friend last night... great deal I must say, kinda wish something like that was around when I started wc. Then again, if we weren't ripping heater cores out of junk cars to wc a pc stuff like this wouldn't even exist!

Speaking of wc... anybody else on water want to share there temps? I feel like my chip is a bit warm for the voltage. I'm coming from a Q9550 oc'd 3.83ghz @ 1.368v, which was generating roughly 100-120W, and my cores never saw 65C with IBT. This 3570k, oc'd to 4.8ghz @ 1.320v is barely breaking 72W, but my temps are quite a bit higher, about 85C with IBT. I've heard about the whole "TIM not as good" thing, hence delidding and such, just didn't think it would be this bad... Do my temps seem high for a water setup? My ambient temps are 23C for these tests.
What you are seeing is normal. With a H100i cooler, one of my 3770k at 4.7 and 1.37v I would hit 88c while stress testing. That is why I decided to delid. Some Ivy chips are better than others temp wise but they are all hot.

It is not the TIM that is the problem, it is the black glue that they use to hold down the IHS. It prevents the IHS from making good contact with the die. Most people get 10-25c temp drop when they delid, but I only recommend it to people who can afford a new chip if they make a mistake, and the chip is worth the trouble.
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post #2232 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanoldman View Post

What you are seeing is normal. With a H100i cooler, one of my 3770k at 4.7 and 1.37v I would hit 88c while stress testing. That is why I decided to delid. Some Ivy chips are better than others temp wise but they are all hot.

It is not the TIM that is the problem, it is the black glue that they use to hold down the IHS. It prevents the IHS from making good contact with the die. Most people get 10-25c temp drop when they delid, but I only recommend it to people who can afford a new chip if they make a mistake, and the chip is worth the trouble.

Cool, thx for the quick response. I'm considering delidding, the process doesn't seem too difficult. However, I think I'd like to get my chip stable at the magical 5.0ghz first, as my temps at 4.8ghz seem reasonable enough.

Which leads me to my next question... I know there is a voltage wall with most, if not all, processors. It seems mine is anything after 4.8ghz (@1.320v). To even boot into windows at 5.0ghz my processor needs 1.42v... to get it even somewhat stable 1.45v, and i've tried up to 1.48v. But I get some wierd stuff going on, I can run and pass, the standard 10 run IBT test, and prime95 will run without failing cores for hours, however, I get all kinds of windows errors (Explorer, Catalyst and others stop responding) going on in the background while stressing. Which is different than I'm used to, I'm coming from a Q9550, P5Q Deluxe, which if there was any instability, Prime or IBT would fail in a heart beat... rather than keep running fine, while windows is crashing in the background.

Have I potentially reached the limit of my chip? I understand I haven't given a lot of info regarding my current settings, and I will provide if somebody wants to get into this with me... I just feel like I'm missing something simple, and for the sake of an already long post...

You can see now why I'm questioning delidding, I don't think I want to run 24/7 OC at more than 1.48v even if my temps are good.
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post #2233 of 4012
From the Ivy overclocking guide - I'll see if I can find the link but you can search for it - the general consensus is that up to 1.55V vcore is safe on water or air provided that the temps don't become prohibitive. Dice and LN2 'maniacs' have run up to 2.4V - but obviously that's just for a bench run, and with the expectation that they may not be running that chip again if it fails. smile.gif

For day to day I wouldn't worry too much but you may have indeed reached the VOLTAGE limit of the chip - this is different from the THERMAL limit - so it totally depends on the actual die itself. On the cooling side they are are the same (at least as far as TDP and throttling is concerned). Delidding won't help the voltage side much if any - however, it might very well help you run your max voltage-limited clock at temps that are 10-20C less for a much greater durability if you run it 24/7 at that clock.

As far as the 'weird' errors you have while being IBT stable - that sounds more likely to be an issue with memory or chipset voltages - it's a delicate balance and you may need to spend more time looking at other areas of the system to make sure that the stability issues don't have a different source than the CPU - even though the CPU is all you are tweaking at the moment. Now if they go away at 1.52V - then I guess not - but if everything else is perfectly stable but you're having drive issues or application crashes - it's likely related to memory or SB I/O control.
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 3/6/13 at 2:05pm
post #2234 of 4012
Wow! 1.55v for a 24/7... that seems crazy to me, but I have little very experience with IB, I wouldn't have tried that with my c2q for a 24/7. But perhaps I'm just paranoid.

Any idea's about the windows errors?

(I'm going to the ETID concert tonight thumbsupsmiley.png:, back tomorrow, and thx again for the quick responses you guys are great!)
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post #2235 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

From the Ivy overclocking guide - I'll see if I can find the link but you can search for it - the general consensus is that up to 1.55V vcore is safe on water or air provided that the temps don't become prohibitive.
I wouldn't go nearly as far 24/7... 1.55 was too much even on 45nm Core i7...

If you plan to keep it for a few years, I wouldn't go above 1.4, maybe 1.45.
post #2236 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimly View Post

Cool, thx for the quick response. I'm considering delidding, the process doesn't seem too difficult. However, I think I'd like to get my chip stable at the magical 5.0ghz first, as my temps at 4.8ghz seem reasonable enough.

Which leads me to my next question... I know there is a voltage wall with most, if not all, processors. It seems mine is anything after 4.8ghz (@1.320v). To even boot into windows at 5.0ghz my processor needs 1.42v... to get it even somewhat stable 1.45v, and i've tried up to 1.48v. But I get some wierd stuff going on, I can run and pass, the standard 10 run IBT test, and prime95 will run without failing cores for hours, however, I get all kinds of windows errors (Explorer, Catalyst and others stop responding) going on in the background while stressing. Which is different than I'm used to, I'm coming from a Q9550, P5Q Deluxe, which if there was any instability, Prime or IBT would fail in a heart beat... rather than keep running fine, while windows is crashing in the background.

Have I potentially reached the limit of my chip? I understand I haven't given a lot of info regarding my current settings, and I will provide if somebody wants to get into this with me... I just feel like I'm missing something simple, and for the sake of an already long post...

You can see now why I'm questioning delidding, I don't think I want to run 24/7 OC at more than 1.48v even if my temps are good.
Your problems may be instability from too little vCore, but it would depend on all your bios settings. Check the first post of the thread below and see if your settings match. Our bios looks a little different, but anything you see in an ROG bios that isn't listed in the guide you can just leave at default.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1291703/ivy-bridge-overclocking-guide-asus-motherboards

I have overclocked three 3770k chips recently and following that guide I had no trouble reaching the limit of the particular chip. Every chip will hit a voltage wall where it needs a very large bump up in voltage to get to the next multiplier, and people usually stop there.

No one, and I mean that literally, knows for sure what is safe to run 24/7 on an Ivy chip for voltage. Part of the problem is that the word safe means different things to different people. If we assume you don't want your chip to degrade a lot within three years then 1.3v is fine, 1.4v is assumed to be fine, and over 1.5v is considered risky but we don't know how risky.

Degradation, or electromigration, is increased by heat and voltage. Really good temps allows a higher voltage, but all chips degrade at some level. We just want it to last for long enough without needing a lot more voltage to maintain our multiplier.

If you can reach the voltage limit on your chip without delidding, then there is no reason to delid. My best chip had horrible temps and I couldn't go much over 1.3v without trouble, so it was a perfect candidate for delidding - not all chips are.
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post #2237 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanoldman View Post

No one, and I mean that literally, knows for sure what is safe to run 24/7 on an Ivy chip for voltage. Part of the problem is that the word safe means different things to different people. If we assume you don't want your chip to degrade a lot within three years then 1.3v is fine, 1.4v is assumed to be fine, and over 1.5v is considered risky but we don't know how risky.

Degradation, or electromigration, is increased by heat and voltage. Really good temps allows a higher voltage, but all chips degrade at some level. We just want it to last for long enough without needing a lot more voltage to maintain our multiplier.

If you can reach the voltage limit on your chip without delidding, then there is no reason to delid. My best chip had horrible temps and I couldn't go much over 1.3v without trouble, so it was a perfect candidate for delidding - not all chips are.

This ^

In general I would consider both your budget and upgrade timeframe as your best guide... something along these guidelines:

1.3V - 1.36V - You are concerned for the environment and have switched to LED lightbulbs throughout your house. You upgrade processors only every 4-5 years or when an new version of Crysis comes out. You have a very tight budget and many mouths that rely on your income.

1.37 - 1.45V - You like to save where it's possible as long as it isn't a compromise in comfort or performance. You upgrade processors every generation and occasionally on the half-gen release (die reduction). You have a reasonably flexible budget and aren't the only income in the house.

1.46V - 1.55V - You will gladly burn the planet to a crisp if it means getting an extra 5MHz on your overclock. You upgrade processors more often than you change your socks - or at least more often than you buy them. You either make way more money than you need to live on or are one of several incomes in the house.

Pick the one closest to your situation and you should be good. biggrin.gif Personally, I look at running 1.5V as a non-issue since it's still technically in-spec and I've yet to have a chip fail even with massive voltage increases on several of them... they've all more than outlived the systems I built them into - in some cases to continue more than a decade later in a cheap router or something (I've got a Q6600 that's been running at close to 3.8GHz for something like 5 years at this point... and it shows no signs of stopping). Even if it were to die (which it could if I slip during delidding) I really wouldn't care that much because thankfully I can spare a few hundred dollars in pursuit of performance - but I understand everyone has different limits.
post #2238 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltaechoe View Post

I actually use ripjaws memory models for that reason, if I didn't have that CPU cooler I would have much higher profile memory

I had the NH-D14 in mind when I built my rig so I went with GSkill ARES. Now if I can only get around to actually buying the cooler. rolleyes.gif
post #2239 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanoldman View Post

Whatever works best for you is the way to go. I have not used Virtu because every review on this site about it says it does not work. Most everyone who tried it says it made things worse not better. I don't think there is any harm in trying though, so let us know if it works for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripsaw View Post


Let us know how you got it to work too wink.gif I'd like to see if i can get it up and running as well, as i can't seem to turn off the iGPU mad.gif


I did have it working at one time and yes, it actually did improve performance in 3DMark11 & Vantage. I also tried a few games like Skyrim and Deus Ex:HR to test for compatibility (but not performance) with good results. Unfortunately when I switched from my 7970 to IGP Windows locked cold and wouldn't boot--nothing but a blank screen. No display setting would work from that point, whether AUTO, PCIe, or IGP; neither did setting it back to single display mode. The BIOS likes to reset the Primary Display back to AUTO and I found VIRTU does not like that at all. Once you have VIRTU set up it's very finicky about your BIOS settings. Any change can throw it off and then you're stuck with a blank screen when booting into Windows.

I could probably get it to work eventually but I'm tweaking/ocing my 7970 atm. If I revisit it and get it going I'll be sure to post.
post #2240 of 4012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

This ^

In general I would consider both your budget and upgrade timeframe as your best guide... something along these guidelines:

1.3V - 1.36V - You are concerned for the environment and have switched to LED lightbulbs throughout your house. You upgrade processors only every 4-5 years or when an new version of Crysis comes out. You have a very tight budget and many mouths that rely on your income.

1.37 - 1.45V - You like to save where it's possible as long as it isn't a compromise in comfort or performance. You upgrade processors every generation and occasionally on the half-gen release (die reduction). You have a reasonably flexible budget and aren't the only income in the house.

1.46V - 1.55V - You will gladly burn the planet to a crisp if it means getting an extra 5MHz on your overclock. You upgrade processors more often than you change your socks - or at least more often than you buy them. You either make way more money than you need to live on or are one of several incomes in the house.

Pick the one closest to your situation and you should be good. biggrin.gif

I'm a mixture of the first & third categories. I have a tight budget yet try to push it to the limit cuz of my obsession with that last few MHz. So far I've never fried anything via overclocking. headscratch.gif
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