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[TT] Leaked slides gives us details about upcoming Haswell-EP - Page 10

post #91 of 109
7/5/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

or, most programmer just suck, and only a few are worth there salt. I know allot of people who took computer programming in college, and became programmers, that couldn't be trusted to change a tire.

Yet, can you refute the fact that multi-threading increases complexity exponentially as there are more possible state machines? More state machines requires more debugging even with well planned and developed code.


This is a basic CS concept... How much multi-threading development do you do?
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post #92 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Yet, can you refute the fact that multi-threading increases complexity exponentially as there are more possible state machines? More state machines requires more debugging even with well planned and developed code.
This is a basic CS concept... How much multi-threading development do you do?
Depends a bit, on the "exponentially". It can certainly be that hard to take single threaded code and make it multithreaded. It's significantly easier to make something multithreaded if you write it that way from the beginning. I expect multi threaded programming to get easier as it becomes the default mode of thought.
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post #93 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:37am
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Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

Depends a bit, on the "exponentially". It can certainly be that hard to take single threaded code and make it multithreaded. It's significantly easier to make something multithreaded if you write it that way from the beginning. I expect multi threaded programming to get easier as it becomes the default mode of thought.
Not always though.

Some workloads are easily multi-threadable... lightly/no interdependent threads with relatively low memory footprints. This would be like brute-force, video editing, financial models, nuclear modelling, etc. These are trivial implementation cases as many of this applications are already multi-threads since there is the performance demand and financial incentives in increase performance.

Some workloads are not easily multi-threadable with dependent threads. See Amdahl's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

Also, large applications can become very complex to develop.
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post #94 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:40am
they could have stopped at 8 core lol
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post #95 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:44am
As it's pretty much a given that desktops will have a discreet GPU these days, I'm surprised Intel won't go with a higher core-count CPU that's a step below server grade. We don't need IGPUs and neither do a lot of workstation PCs.
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post #96 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbaltazar View Post

they could have stopped at 8 core lol

Intel has 10-core CPUs and a 50-core coprocessor already.


There is demand for 8, 10, 16, 50, 100, 1000, etc core CPUs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael13 View Post

As it's pretty much a given that desktops will have a discreet GPU these days, I'm surprised Intel won't go with a higher core-count CPU that's a step below server grade. We don't need IGPUs and neither do a lot of workstation PCs.
What are you talking about? The vast vast majority of desktops have iGPUs. The vast majority of workstations also have iGPUs.

iGPUs are absolutely still required and make up the majority of the market.
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/5/12 at 9:48am
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post #97 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kael13 View Post

As it's pretty much a given that desktops will have a discreet GPU these days, I'm surprised Intel won't go with a higher core-count CPU that's a step below server grade. We don't need IGPUs and neither do a lot of workstation PCs.
If anything, IGPs are becoming more popular today...
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post #98 of 109
7/5/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Intel has 10-core CPUs and a 50-core coprocessor already.
There is demand for 8, 10, 16, 50, 100, 1000, etc core CPUs.
What are you talking about? The vast vast majority of desktops have iGPUs. The vast majority of workstations also have iGPUs.
iGPUs are absolutely still required and make up the majority of the market.

Is that so? I just went to Dell.co.uk and had a look at their small business desktops. All models above the base system have dedicated GPUs included.
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post #99 of 109
7/5/12 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kael13 View Post

Is that so? I just went to Dell.co.uk and had a look at their small business desktops. All models above the base system have dedicated GPUs included.

...and which models do you think the vast majority of companies order? Do most office workers require a discrete GPU?


Last year, Intel has 50% of the worlds GPUs... and all their GPUs are intergrated. AMD has been moving a lot of APUs as well.

233
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/5/12 at 10:08am
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post #100 of 109
7/5/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Not always though.
Some workloads are easily multi-threadable... lightly/no interdependent threads with relatively low memory footprints. This would be like brute-force, video editing, financial models, nuclear modelling, etc. These are trivial implementation cases as many of this applications are already multi-threads since there is the performance demand and financial incentives in increase performance.
Some workloads are not easily multi-threadable with dependent threads. See Amdahl's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law
Also, large applications can become very complex to develop.
It's true that some tasks are difficult to split into multiple threads, but the vast majority of software isn't anywhere close to that. Take the main loop of a game engine, RTS for example, I see no reason I/O, rendering, pathfinding, unit creation, collision, AI, physics, and unit removal can't run simultaneously, Most of them may have to complete their tasks every iteration, but you can start them all from the state of the previous loop, and update the master game state in a deterministic manner after starting all the tasks. You're still limited by whichever task takes longest, but you know where to optimize. The best reason not to do this is that the target hardware is fast enough to run it all in one or two cores at acceptable framerates, and you're usually limited by GPU.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 7/5/12 at 10:36am
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