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post #151 of 775
Thread Starter 
I'm gonna clarify this once and for all. The noise to tempertaure rating is there to access how well a fan can cool and how quiet it is. I came up with that equation primarily for quiet fans.

Here's an example:

Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. Fan B produces the same amount of noise, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).

It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.

I could have just made noise and temperature charts and leave the rest well enough alone, but I see more and more people going for quieter and more efficient setups. Having something like noise to temperature rating can help choose the best possible fan(s) that are extremely quiet and can also move a decent amount of air at the same time.
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post #152 of 775
Thread Starter 
Revisiting Fans #4, #18, #23:







All the Scythe Fans (25mm thick) I've tested to date. They concentrate more on performance than quietness.
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post #153 of 775
Thread Starter 
Revisiting Fans #2, #3, #5, #6, and #9:











I'm finaly finished with all the old fans, so now I can move on with new products.

All the noise output results have been re-uploaded to post #1. Post #2 is also back up to speed. Noise to temperature ratings are coming soon.
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post #154 of 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.

The delta temperature is halved when you double the flow rate, which is why there is little benefit to very high RPM fans when your using a heat sink with a low pressure drop. Here's an example:

 

 

Let's assume 0 pressure drop (ventilating resistance, or restriction) to make it easier.

 

Scenario A:

Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 2*C ΔT, 40dB

Fan A @4000RPM: 100CFM, 1*C ΔT, 55dB

 

You lower the ΔT by 1*C, but at what cost (in terms of noise)? Well, doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB. Definitely not worth it.

 

Scenario B:

Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB

Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 5*C ΔT, 40dB

 

This time your ΔT drops by 5*C. You may have increase the noise by 15dB but Fan A @1000RPM was very quiet, and now the fan is at a tolerable noise level. So with little cost in terms of noise, you have lowered the ΔT by 5*C.

 

Scenario C:

Fan A @500RPM: 12.5CFM, 20*C ΔT, 10dB

Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB

 

ΔT is now 10*C lower, but the fan is still very quiet. Quite a large gain for almost no cost in noise.

 

Equations used for the above:

CFM = 3.16 x W / ΔT (°F)

Assuming specific heat and density for sea level.

 

CFM2 = CFM1 (RPM2 / RPM1)

 

N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)

Where: N = noise (dB)

Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.

 

Note: ΔT is the difference between the inlet and outlet temperature of the heat sink and fan/s combination.

 

 

Keep in mind that +10dB is a doubling in noise. Let's add 40*C to the ΔTs since the heat transfer between the CPU and heat sink is not 100% efficient. Based on the above and using your rating, the lower the RPM, the better the fan.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post

Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. Fan B produces the same amount of noise, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).

The bold part seems to be the flaw. If noise is constant, then you can compare the fans directly. But with the noise being different for each fan, I believe you have to account for the perceived noise level (+10dB is a doubling in noise). The fans must be compared "apples to apples".

 

For example:

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @29dB*: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT

 

*Measured 50cm from the intake rather than the standard 1m

 

If Fan B was measured at the same distance as Fan A, it would be 6dB louder (when the reflection sound to nearby walls is ignored).

 

So now it's:

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @35dB: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT

 

Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):

Fan A: 9.8

Fan B: 9.5

 

Fan B is better. Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:

 

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT

 

Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):

Fan A: 9.8

Fan B: 10

 

Fan A is better. How can this be wth.gif!? Well it seems that the lower the RPM, the more of an advantage the fan has in these zero pressure drop scenarios. Once you add some ventilating resistance, I suspect there will be a certain RPM for the heat sink you are using that will give the fans an unfair advantage when compared using your rating. And that doesn't even account for the fact that dB is not linear.

 

You may have already known that fans have a "sweet spot" in terms of pressure drop, but in case you didn't here is a graph that shows it.

 

 

So can you please stop rating the fans this way? smile.gif And make sure any replacement equation you use makes sense.

 

 

 

Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes in the above. If I did, feel free to point them out with evidence to back it up.

 

Edit: Make sure you read the changes in the latest edit.


Edited by nawon72 - 8/29/12 at 7:21am
post #155 of 775
Thread Starter 
Fan #26 - Antec True Quiet 120:



This is going to be the first new fan review I've done in a while and it's a good one. There are a couple of unique design elements associated with this fan that I've never seen on any other products before.

First and foremost, the fanblades are fused to the frame. Couple this with the smallest hub that I've seen on a 120mm fan and you'll get the least possible deadzone, which means more airflow for the same given space.

The other strong point with this product is how effortlessly it operates. I didn't actually realize this 'till I turned the test system off. Only then I noticed that It took quite a while for the fan to stop spinning. I did a control test with a couple of other fans in the same RPM range and measured how long it would take for them to come to a complete stop after the power was cut off. The average time was about 3-6 seconds, however, it took The Antec fan 30 seconds to come to a complete halt which is amazing.

There are a couple of neutral/negative things that I need to point out though. The fan operates in 1200 RPM and 600 RPM modes. The way you can change this is by flicking a switch that is connected by a wire to the fan. RPM reduction is usualy done by an additional adaptor (LNA, ULNA). It would have been alot better if the switch was placed on the fan itself and not connected to it with a wire or, they could have offered the fan with a low noise adaptor, making cable management easier.

One more thing you need to be careful about is the frame. The fan comes with rubber grommets all around to reduce vibration. This is fine when you're operating it on a heatsink in push configuration. in pull mode however, you might have the frame contact the heatsink surface, so make sure you set it up properly.

All in all, this is a very innovative product. In low RPM mode, it's impossible to hear the fan. I wouldn't bother with that mode though, as normal operation is quiet enough for pretty much everybody.

As always, pictures on post #2.
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post #156 of 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by nawon72 View Post

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT

Note: I first removed the +40*C from earlier.

Based on your rating (added 40*C to ΔT yet again):
Fan A: 9.8
Fan B: 10
Why did the noise from fan b change to 50dB?
    
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post #157 of 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nawon72 View Post

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT

Note: I first removed the +40*C from earlier.

Based on your rating (added 40*C to ΔT yet again):
Fan A: 9.8
Fan B: 10
Why did the noise from fan b change to 50dB?

This is why:

Quote:
Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:
Quote:
doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB
Quote:

N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)

Where: N = noise (dB)

Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.

post #158 of 775
This is intense, I love it and kudos to the hard work gone into everything on here. From certain charts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like Push/Pull configurations have an indistiguishable gain and sometimes no gain at all at a very significant doubling of power. Push/Pull configs look good but I'm sure I've seen in other places that it does make a difference. If I am reading it right and your tests are showing that push/pull makes very little difference, could this be down to the setup of your test rig? can the nature of the rig affect this?

I really appreciaite the work gone into it though, my own testing is based on noise and how cheaply I can get the fans. Possibly a price/performance/noise score could be put together as well. Price is important if you have to pay smile.gif
post #159 of 775
Man, I must say..I love delta fans.
I do also hate when people complain about fan noise, it sounds in my opinion rather appealing. thumb.gif
You should test the Delta Mega-fast 120mm fans.
Which supposedly run up to 7200 rpm and are rated at 252 cfm.
Might as well be a leaf-blower fan biggrin.gif.

Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8147/fan-500/Delta_Mega_Fast_120mm_x_38mm_Fan_-_252_CFM_-_Bare_Lead_PFB1212UHE-F00.html
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post #160 of 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhughesuk View Post

This is intense, I love it and kudos to the hard work gone into everything on here. From certain charts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like Push/Pull configurations have an indistiguishable gain and sometimes no gain at all at a very significant doubling of power. Push/Pull configs look good but I'm sure I've seen in other places that it does make a difference. If I am reading it right and your tests are showing that push/pull makes very little difference, could this be down to the setup of your test rig? can the nature of the rig affect this?

Fans in series increases the static pressure, so it is most helpful when there is a lot of ventilating resistance. See this diagram. So yes, "the nature of the rig" can "affect this".


Edited by nawon72 - 8/29/12 at 8:57am
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