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post #2111 of 2742
Wow....so the mighty Nidec Gentle Typhoon has finally met its match....



Yes, it's higher priced, but you're getting a massive 200,000 hour MTBF on these magnetic levitation bearings so I feel the price is justified. Especially the ML120 twin packs for $35 with two fans ($17.50 per fan!)

From both my and Geg's experience these appear to be just as quiet as the GT's, have slightly MORE performance in most radiator situations and high resistance heatsinks as well etc..;

I really feel I did the right choice buying these. Now i'm just wondering whether these would be more optimized for my XSPC EX 480mm rad or my HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360mm rad. Don't recall the FPI of either rad, but the GT is ~55mm thick compared to 30mm thick on the XSPC, which might give the GTX more advantage depending on the FPI optimization.
 
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post #2112 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

Wow....so the mighty Nidec Gentle Typhoon has finally met its match....



Yes, it's higher priced, but you're getting a massive 200,000 hour MTBF on these magnetic levitation bearings so I feel the price is justified. Especially the ML120 twin packs for $35 with two fans ($17.50 per fan!)

From both my and Geg's experience these appear to be just as quiet as the GT's, have slightly MORE performance in most radiator situations and high resistance heatsinks as well etc..;

I really feel I did the right choice buying these. Now i'm just wondering whether these would be more optimized for my XSPC EX 480mm rad or my HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360mm rad. Don't recall the FPI of either rad, but the GT is ~55mm thick compared to 30mm thick on the XSPC, which might give the GTX more advantage depending on the FPI optimization.
Graphs make them look better than they really are.

Sound numbers and graphs are very different from actually hearing the fans. I would want to have both and use them for a week or two before saying they sound better. Our ears don't notice a 2dB difference in volume we see on a graph of in data, but our ears will hear a difference in tonal quality.

We also need to 'read the fine print'. Okay it's just normal print, but maybe it should be enlarged bold print
geggeg said
Quote:
ML120 Pro did better marginally compared to the EK and Darkside GT offerings but it’s still close to them with error margins considered

With an overal review rating of 85% they are no better than other top fans (PH-F120MP, GT 2150, GT 1850 PWM, etc all have 85% review rating) .. and we have no track record to know if they will last or not. Corsair has made many advertising claims of performance and life expectancy that have not proven true in the past, so why should we believe them now? After all it's more advertising hype rather than actual proof from real independent testing. We have no idea how long they will last after a few days of use. That is not saying they are bad or will not last. Just that we have almost nothing to support that the are really super good or that they will last. tongue.gif
Edited by doyll - 7/13/16 at 1:39am
post #2113 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.
I'm intrigued, but it's probably worth pointing out that Sunon generally shies away from that kind of blade design, and generally prefers ball bearings to sleeves even in their Maglev series, so I would hazard a guess that Sunon simply licensed out the Maglev to Corsair, who then modified the existing SP120 design to accommodate it (along with thinning the blades and adding more of them). I'm also curious to know how it sounds when undervolted compared to on PWM; the reason for this curiosity is that I had heard before that Sunons are mostly crap for undervolting from a sound profile perspective, and I'd like to believe their bearing designs are responsible for that. Reading your note here:
Quote:
(2) the MagLev bearing will not work well lower than 8-9 V with the bearing not levitating as it should.
I'm inclined to believe I'm on-point in both aspects here, that the bearing design is responsible for this, and that Sunon licensed it out rather than being the outright OEM. I could be wrong, of course, but this is what the circumstances and testing tell me.

All aside, nice work, though the price isn't exactly getting me all that hyped. tongue.gif
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post #2114 of 2742
Thread Starter 
Some samples would be nice, Corsair.
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post #2115 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.
I'm intrigued, but it's probably worth pointing out that Sunon generally shies away from that kind of blade design, and generally prefers ball bearings to sleeves even in their Maglev series, so I would hazard a guess that Sunon simply licensed out the Maglev to Corsair, who then modified the existing SP120 design to accommodate it (along with thinning the blades and adding more of them). I'm also curious to know how it sounds when undervolted compared to on PWM; the reason for this curiosity is that I had heard before that Sunons are mostly crap for undervolting from a sound profile perspective, and I'd like to believe their bearing designs are responsible for that. Reading your note here:
Quote:
(2) the MagLev bearing will not work well lower than 8-9 V with the bearing not levitating as it should.
I'm inclined to believe I'm on-point in both aspects here, that the bearing design is responsible for this, and that Sunon licensed it out rather than being the outright OEM. I could be wrong, of course, but this is what the circumstances and testing tell me.

All aside, nice work, though the price isn't exactly getting me all that hyped. tongue.gif

The review pointed out that these fans should not be voltage controlled.
     
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post #2116 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

The review pointed out that these fans should not be voltage controlled.
Right, I'm just pointing out the one angle that wasn't really covered in the review. Again, it's a curiosity that kind of started gnawing at me when I was done reading.
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post #2117 of 2742
I'm with Chunky_Chimp. There is just too much unknown yet to know how good / bad these fans will be. They may be the best thing to come along and they may stumble along for some time before really being good. I'm too old school to buy first release. I want to see some track history before I go spending the extreme price this are now costing .. if ever. After all, the GTs are still the reigning king if for no other reasons then their price and long proven track record.
post #2118 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Graphs make them look better than they really are.

Sound numbers and graphs are very different from actually hearing the fans. I would want to have both and use them for a week or two before saying they sound better. Our ears don't notice a 2dB difference in volume we see on a graph of in data, but our ears will hear a difference in tonal quality.

We also need to 'read the fine print'. Okay it's just normal print, but maybe it should be enlarged bold print
geggeg said
With an overal review rating of 85% they are no better than other top fans (PH-F120MP, GT 2150, GT 1850 PWM, etc all have 85% review rating) .. and we have no track record to know if they will last or not. Corsair has made many advertising claims of performance and life expectancy that have not proven true in the past, so why should we believe them now? After all it's more advertising hype rather than actual proof from real independent testing. We have no idea how long they will last after a few days of use. That is not saying they are bad or will not last. Just that we have almost nothing to support that the are really super good or that they will last. tongue.gif

1st) You claim we have nowhere near enough info to make an assessment of how GOOD they are, but you go and make an objective statement like "the graph makes them look bettter than they really are" claiming to know how BAD they are. Which is even more of a logical fallacy as the graphs by Gegegg are quite well done with no reason to really doubt them, and there's ZERO evidence proving these perform ANY worse than the graph says they do. I have them and know how loud and well they perform, and my findings were literally 100% identical for the most part to what Geggeg has said.

2nd) Regarding comparison with the typhoons and the difference being marginal, 85% review etc..etc.. This is why i said the GT's have met their "MATCH" not that they were "bested" or anything. I was saying that a fan has finally been able to TIE and in the case of certain radiators SLIGHTLY outdo the GT's overall which is something no other fan has really done in the past without some other type of glaring drawback (i.e. the vardars having significant motor tick QC issues and not being "quite" as quiet in general etc..) . And i have the fans and have done a hell of a lot of listening to them since i got them, both by ear and even recorded with a studio condenser mic and db meter and they are even quieter than the SP120 quiet editions at equivalent rpm, and the SP120 Quiets were already just as quiet if not slightly more quiet than the GT's, the SP120s just didn't have the PERFORMANCE at that quiet rpm to get anywhere near the GTs. The fact of the matter is, these fans ARE slightly quieter than GTs at most common rpm speeds, and ARE slightly better performing on most radiators than the GTs.

Is that a reason to just run out right now and get a bunch of these instead of GTs especially considering price? of course not. But the twin pack is only $17.50 a fan, which is CHEAPER than the GTs, and the only difference is the twin pack ones lack the anti-vibration mounts which can be put on seperately if need be.

And actually yes we DO have a track record to know how long these will last, it has nothing to do with Corsair marketing; it's the fact that the TECH is already established (maglev bearings have been around for several years already in some form or another) and known to have massively higher MTBF lifespans. Even some of the cheapo Sunon maglev's would last damn near forever. The amount of baseless brand hate you're showing towards Corsair is kinda perplexing frankly, no offense. I just don't understand why having another top tier fan would ever be a bad thing, you can go right on picking typhoons for the rest of your life (assuming they're available) if you like. There's no such thing as a "perfect fan", i'm just happy that we have another high tier option to choose from; especially one that soars in water cooling situations. Getting well over 5C drop in CPU core temps on same rpm from SP120 to these is no joke, i'm perfectly happy with them.
Edited by DarkIdeals - 7/13/16 at 2:33am
 
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post #2119 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I'm with Chunky_Chimp. There is just too much unknown yet to know how good / bad these fans will be. They may be the best thing to come along and they may stumble along for some time before really being good. I'm too old school to buy first release. I want to see some track history before I go spending the extreme price this are now costing .. if ever. After all, the GTs are still the reigning king if for no other reasons then their price and long proven track record.
For a little clarity, I'm not expecting them to be outright bad, again, it's just a curiosity about something that wasn't covered. I should probably point out, too, that GTs got to their current status by having such a good noise profile relative to a given amount of static pressure in the curve, making them excellent all-purpose fans. It's partly on me since I had said around the time that S-Flexes, which were even better all-purpose fans, went out of production (and at a time when I had a high rep member's presence rather than a mod's, and when my say-so was worth a little more) that GTs were a good alternative if S-Fs were to not come back. More people picked up GTs, more people reviewed them, and it took off from there, even killing off relevance of thicker fans to some degree. I do have a small amount of regret that I didn't approach the situation differently, given my preference for turning down thicker fans over running as-fast thinner fans (my case is still loaded with San Aces and Panaflos), but it's not like it was really a bad thing. tongue.gif
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Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
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Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
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Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
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Deep Blood
(16 items)
 
  
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Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
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post #2120 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkIdeals View Post

1st) You claim we have nowhere near enough info to make an assessment of how GOOD they are, but you go and make an objective statement like "the graph makes them look bettter than they really are" claiming to know how BAD they are. Which is even more of a logical fallacy as the graphs by Gegegg are quite well done with no reason to really doubt them, and there's ZERO evidence proving these perform ANY worse than the graph says they do. I have them and know how loud and well they perform, and my findings were literally 100% identical for the most part to what Geggeg has said.

2nd) Regarding comparison with the typhoons and the difference being marginal, 85% review etc..etc.. This is why i said the GT's have met their "MATCH" not that they were "bested" or anything. I was saying that a fan has finally been able to TIE and in the case of certain radiators SLIGHTLY outdo the GT's overall which is something no other fan has really done in the past without some other type of glaring drawback (i.e. the vardars having significant motor tick QC issues and not being "quite" as quiet in general etc..) . And i have the fans and have done a hell of a lot of listening to them since i got them, both by ear and even recorded with a studio condenser mic and db meter and they are even quieter than the SP120 quiet editions at equivalent rpm, and the SP120 Quiets were already just as quiet if not slightly more quiet than the GT's, the SP120s just didn't have the PERFORMANCE at that quiet rpm to get anywhere near the GTs. The fact of the matter is, these fans ARE slightly quieter than GTs at most common rpm speeds, and ARE slightly better performing on most radiators than the GTs.

Is that a reason to just run out right now and get a bunch of these instead of GTs especially considering price? of course not. But the twin pack is only $17.50 a fan, which is CHEAPER than the GTs, and the only difference is the twin pack ones lack the anti-vibration mounts which can be put on seperately if need be.

And actually yes we DO have a track record to know how long these will last, it has nothing to do with Corsair marketing; it's the fact that the TECH is already established (maglev bearings have been around for several years already in some form or another) and known to have massively higher MTBF lifespans. Even some of the cheapo Sunon maglev's would last damn near forever. The amount of baseless brand hate you're showing towards Corsair is kinda perplexing frankly, no offense. I just don't understand why having another top tier fan would ever be a bad thing, you can go right on picking typhoons for the rest of your life (assuming they're available) if you like. There's no such thing as a "perfect fan", i'm just happy that we have another high tier option to choose from; especially one that soars in water cooling situations. Getting well over 5C drop in CPU core temps on same rpm from SP120 to these is no joke, i'm perfectly happy with them.
There is not enough data or track history to say they are better. No wiggle room there mate.

Graph shows difference in sound volume levels being a couple db. Human ear needs at least 2db, usually more like 3db to 'hear' a change if volume.

Maybe the having line in graph like this will help show what I mean. the difference between each horizontal line is about the minimum the human hear can hear as a change in sound. The difference between each vertical line is about 2.6cfm. This cfm is base on FPM thorugh a 100sq cm hole. What this means is any two fan graph lines with similar spacing as yellow grid are well within the margin of error and change in performance that is not noticable in normal use.


A fan being quiet does not mean it has good airflow. AF120 are good examples of this.
The bearing is not the only component with a life expectancy in a fan. MTBF lifespan is a calculated guess.
How well are these fans going to perform with a magnetic field along side of them?
What are power spikes or low power going to do? For example we already know the y don't seem to work well on variable voltage below 8-9v.
Will some PWM controls cause them to click?
Is coil whine going to be a possible problem?
Will some grill patterns and blade design cause harmonic noise issues like Vardars do?

There are all kinds of things we do not know yet.
Edited by doyll - 7/13/16 at 3:47am
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