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post #691 of 2742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterion90 View Post

So I just looked at the charts and saw that the bitfenix spectre pro did not do very well. I just bhought 4 of them, 3 200mm and 1 230mm version. I also have a 140mm version already installed.

I think I know why the results are so bad the OP used the 3pin versions of them but there are also 4pin pwm versions which have roughly 50% more rpm (for example the 140mm 3pin version has 1200rpm while 4pin one has 1800rpm)

From what I can say the 140mm is very strong it pushes a ton of air and has a high static pressure. From the specs alone I was not able to find another 140mm fan with better values.
At 120mm the situation is different, we have those Delta which have outstanding performance but are as loud as a starting jet. Scythe has also some neat fans. I'm currently using a Grand Flex 120 PWM 2400rpm which blows directly onto the graphics cards.

Let's compare the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120 PWM with the Corsair SP120 high performance:

Bitfenix:
RPM: 1800
mm H2O: 2,6
CFM: 70,52 +/- 10%
dB(A): 26,1

Corsair:
RPM: 2350
mm H2O: 3,1
CFM: 62,74
dB(A): 35

It's up to you to decide which one is better the Corsair has a slightly higher static pressure but thats it.

As soon as my 230mm version arrives I'll test it again the Coolermaster Megaflow which was preinstalled in my Coolermaster HAF X smile.gif

So why am I writing all this? Because I don't like how those results make the Bitfenix Spectre Pro Series Look like garbage because they are definetely not the OP did. just not test the best version of them. The PWM is Way superior to the normal version as i already mentioned the PWM versions have roughly 50% higher rpm and thus much better specs.

NEVER compare fans with the manufacturer's specification. They're never accurate because each vendor tests their own product differently. There is no way in the known universe that a 1800 RPM fan produces 26.1 dB. It's way more, again all depends on the testing setup.

As for Spectre pros, the 120mm is the most horrible version. 140mm isn't as bad, but by no means is it good either. Having a higher RPM version doesn't solve the issue that these fans are flawed in design and are not able to move air efficiently, i.e. without making too much noise.

There are far better options out there that are less expensive and move more air at lower dB levels.

I understand that you felt the need to defend your purchase, but I'm not biased in my reviews. I see no reason why anyone would purchase Spectre Pros other than their looks, because the performance is simply terrible.

Again, never look at manufacturer's specs when comparing fans. Most of the time they are inaccurate, and in case of Spectre Pros, pure garbage. On the other hand, I'm happy to recommend Bitfenix's original Spectre fans, they are quiet and move a decent amount of air, far better than Spectre Pros in all of my testing.
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post #692 of 2742
I get your points but still, you didn't test the PWM version smile.gif

They are supposed to be the real "premium version". The thing is: I do believe you because there is no reason you should be lying BUT it all depends on what you are looking for. If you wan't high airflow at low loise you won't have much static pressure (no static pressure without high RPM). But this is exactly what I was looking for because I needed fans that push the hot air between the two graphics cards out. So I really looked all over the internets to get the best at noiselevels <40db(A).
If noise had been my primary target I would have had just gone with a Noiseblocker or bequiet! but I'm almost 100% sure those would not help much because they would move cold air to the cards but the air would just get mixed with the hot air and thus not having the desired effect.

And this is how I got to the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140mm PWM version, it just has the best specs I could find. (Again regarding cfm and especially static pressure)


The 200mm and 230mm don't need to have such a high pressure because two of them will be exhausting hot air on the top and the 230mm will be intaking air on the front, I just went for them because it looks better to have all the same fans. Also the market for >200mm fans is pretty straightforward, the only ones you can choose between are the Coolermaster Megaflow and the Bitfenix. I already have a CM Megaflow and I'm disappointed, it just doesn't feel like it's pulling much air into the case.

So can you show me a 140mm fan which has an equal or better static pressure and equal or higher CFM than the Spectre Pro PWM? I couldn't find one.

One last thing: I know that the manufacters always give their fans the absolute optimal specs which in fact may never be reached in real world scenarios but I don't think they would just come up with some numbers they like. They are always a bit exagerated but that's the case for all manufacters. And if you don't go by the specs how should one decide which fan to buy? Not everybody has the time to read reviews for like 5 hours before spending 20 bucks.
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post #693 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterion90 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So I just looked at the charts and saw that the bitfenix spectre pro did not do very well. I just bhought 4 of them, 3 200mm and 1 230mm version. I also have a 140mm version already installed.

I think I know why the results are so bad the OP used the 3pin versions of them but there are also 4pin pwm versions which have roughly 50% more rpm (for example the 140mm 3pin version has 1200rpm while 4pin one has 1800rpm)

From what I can say the 140mm is very strong it pushes a ton of air and has a high static pressure. From the specs alone I was not able to find another 140mm fan with better values.
At 120mm the situation is different, we have those Delta which have outstanding performance but are as loud as a starting jet. Scythe has also some neat fans.
I'm currently using a Grand Flex 120 PWM 2400rpm which blows directly onto the graphics cards.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Let's compare the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120 PWM with the Corsair SP120 high performance:

Bitfenix:
RPM: 1800
mm H2O: 2,6
CFM: 70,52 +/- 10%
dB(A): 26,1

Corsair:
RPM: 2350
mm H2O: 3,1
CFM: 62,74
dB(A): 35

It's up to you to decide which one is better the Corsair has a slightly higher static pressure but thats it.

As soon as my 230mm version arrives I'll test it again the Coolermaster Megaflow which was preinstalled in my Coolermaster HAF X smile.gif

So why am I writing all this? Because I don't like how those results make the Bitfenix Spectre Pro Series Look like garbage because they are definetely not the OP did. just not test the best version of them. The PWM is Way superior to the normal version as i already mentioned the PWM versions have roughly 50% higher rpm and thus much better specs.

This is a little OT but it looks like you have 2 GTX 780 Lightnings in SLI? I have 2 GTX 780 Classifieds in SLI. I had a side intake blowing on the cards (140mm Noctua NF-A14 PWM), like you said there is a lot of heat there. I just reversed my side intake to make it a side exhaust and my graphics card temps dropped about 8C. The side exhaust does a great job of evacuating hot air.
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post #694 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterion90 View Post

One last thing: I know that the manufacters always give their fans the absolute optimal specs which in fact may never be reached in real world scenarios but I don't think they would just come up with some numbers they like. They are always a bit exagerated but that's the case for all manufacters. And if you don't go by the specs how should one decide which fan to buy? Not everybody has the time to read reviews for like 5 hours before spending 20 bucks.
I disagree. Manufactures / companies are often untruthful. Money is often their driving force, and when there is no standard by which they are held accountable they say what will make them the most money.

The fact that most people do not research and find the truth is a big part of how they get away with lying to us about their products.
post #695 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I disagree. Manufactures / companies are often untruthful. Money is often their driving force, and when there is no standard by which they are held accountable they say what will make them the most money.

The fact that most people do not research and find the truth is a big part of how they get away with lying to us about their products.

This is not quite true. Taiwan manufactures are held very accountable to the data they put on the package. They don't have to put it all, but what they put is true.

And, you have heard of the internet? If you print something untrue people will find out and your are done. This goes for product and reviewers. Its hard to outright lie anymore. That does mean people have gotten much more creative tongue.gif
 
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post #696 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kip69 View Post

[
This is not quite true. Taiwan manufactures are held very accountable to the data they put on the package. They don't have to put it all, but what they put is true.

And, you have heard of the internet? If you print something untrue people will find out and your are done. This goes for product and reviewers. Its hard to outright lie anymore. That does mean people have gotten much more creative tongue.gif
You are viewing the world through rose colored glasses. biggrin.gif

Example:
ASUS said some of their motherboard 4 pin headers were PWM when they in fact were not. When buyers questioned them ASUS lied to them and said the were PWM when there was now PWM signal at all. Only voltage control. They did not refund customers. They were not charged with a crime. All they did was laugh all the way to the bank.
Another:
Monsanto sues farmers who do not contract to grow their genetically engineered corn by accusing them of using Monsanto seed. How? Simple. The farmers grow and sell corn and keep some of what they grow for seed the next year. Farmer's neighbors are growing Monsanto corn.. which cross pollinates with the non-Monsanto corn so now farmer has some Monsanto DNA in his corn.. so Monsanto sues him for using their modified DNA corn. Farmer has no choice. There is no way he can keep Monsanto corn's pollen from blowing onto his land.
Another:
Asatek patented the concept of closed loop coolers with pump built into heatsink. Swiftech cannot sell their H220 or H320 in USA because of this.
Another
Bolivia tried to lease Bechtel subsidiary International Water Ltd. all water rights.. including rain. The people protested in late 1999 and early 2000 to keep their rights to their own water.

I'll agree to disagree about the honesty of big business. thumb.gif
Edited by doyll - 3/24/14 at 6:40pm
post #697 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

You are viewing the world through rose colored glasses. biggrin.gif

Example:
ASUS said some of their motherboard 4 pin headers were PWM when they in fact were not. When buyers questioned them ASUS lied to them and said the were PWM when there was now PWM signal at all. Only voltage control. They did not refund customers. They were not charged with a crime. All they did was laugh all the way to the bank.
Must be in USA. Here in Taiwan they have the proper information on that board. Odd case.

Another:
Monsanto sues farmers who do not contract to grow their genetically engineered corn by accusing them of using Monsanto seed. How? Simple. The farmers grow and sell corn and keep some of what they grow for seed the next year. Farmer's neighbors are growing Monsanto corn.. which cross pollinates with the non-Monsanto corn so now farmer has some Monsanto DNA in his corn.. so Monsanto sues him for using their modified DNA corn. Farmer has no choice. There is no way he can keep Monsanto corn's pollen from blowing onto his land.
This is a simple lie you have fallen for. Hard to explain with out getting into political but: Monsanto has never sued for contamination or accidental use. They do sue to protect their IP. Let me say that again! NEVER SUED DO TO CONTAMINATION, and that was proven in court. And one more lie you have been fed: No farmer saves seeds. Not GMO, regular or organic. Only seed breeders and heirloom seeds breed true today. All hybrid seeds (even organic) are mules and most are male sterile, but they all don't have good offspring and no one used the second generation.

Another:
Asatek patented the concept of closed loop coolers with pump built into heatsink. Swiftech cannot sell their H220 or H320 in USA because of this.
Interesting. But how is that a lie? Bad patent law yes, but a lie?

Another
Bolivia tried to lease Bechtel subsidiary International Water Ltd. all water rights.. including rain. The people protested in late 1999 and early 2000 to keep their rights to their own water.
Many cities around the world had laws that prevented rain water collection, rarely enforced. And they are being changed. Many cities give great deals to corps to get them to go there. Nestle is very bad for that. But they don't lie about it! I don't agree with it, water will cause WWIII, but its out in the open. You heard about it right? That proves my point about the internet.

I'll agree to disagree about the honesty of big business. thumb.gif

They may try to get away with stuff, but they get caught. And the reputation is becoming more and more important to companies.

Asus and especially ROG is built on reputation. Just look at what happens to a company that gets a bad rep on OCN.

Is this the Mobo you are talking about? You got me interested: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-gigabyte-motherboard,5348.html
Edited by KipH - 3/24/14 at 8:45pm
 
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post #698 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kip69 View Post


They may try to get away with stuff, but they get caught. And the reputation is becoming more and more important to companies.

Asus and especially ROG is built on reputation. Just look at what happens to a company that gets a bad rep on OCN.

Is this the Mobo you are talking about? You got me interested: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-gigabyte-motherboard,5348.html

Sometimes they get caught and than we hear about it. What about all the other times they don't get caught?

Sorry Monsanto sued farmers saving seed for patent infringement..
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/monsanto-victorious-in-genetic-seed-case.html?_r=0

One ASUS motherboard that claimed PWM when CHA fan headers were not was M5A67 R2.0 Manual shows:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1353732/trouble-with-pwm-control-on-chassis-fan-headers-w-pwm-splitter/0_20#post_19144807

Maximus V Extreme
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?23376-Maximus-V-Extreme-PWM-control-Fan-outlets&p=249120#post249120
post #699 of 2742
This isn't my thread, but can we stay on topic?
post #700 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

This is a little OT but it looks like you have 2 GTX 780 Lightnings in SLI? I have 2 GTX 780 Classifieds in SLI. I had a side intake blowing on the cards (140mm Noctua NF-A14 PWM), like you said there is a lot of heat there. I just reversed my side intake to make it a side exhaust and my graphics card temps dropped about 8C. The side exhaust does a great job of evacuating hot air.

Sry of OT but I have to biggrin.gif
Interesting, I tried to reverse the fan to make it exhaust the air but temperatures actually went up by about ~5°C

In order to get better temps I had to mount a 200mm fan and a Scythe Grand Flex 2400rpm directly on to the 200mm fan on the side. Now my temps are in check and I'm ready for 30°C+ ambient temps lol
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