Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel - General › More questions
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

More questions - Page 4

post #31 of 37
Thread Starter 
very well put Chozart... thanks you.
Brrrrrrrr...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 @ 5500GHz Asus P5K Prem. Black Pearl eVGA 8800GT SC 512Mb 2x2Gb OCZ ReaperX 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x250Gb + 1x1Tb Seagate Perps in RAID0 Samsung Sata DVD-RW Vista Business x64 2 x 22" LG Flatron's 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech UltraX OCZ GameXtreme 700W Lian Li PC65 Black (Modded) Logitech G7 Carbon 
Mouse Pad
Glossy School Thing 
  hide details  
Reply
Brrrrrrrr...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 @ 5500GHz Asus P5K Prem. Black Pearl eVGA 8800GT SC 512Mb 2x2Gb OCZ ReaperX 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x250Gb + 1x1Tb Seagate Perps in RAID0 Samsung Sata DVD-RW Vista Business x64 2 x 22" LG Flatron's 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech UltraX OCZ GameXtreme 700W Lian Li PC65 Black (Modded) Logitech G7 Carbon 
Mouse Pad
Glossy School Thing 
  hide details  
Reply
post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chozart View Post
I disagree with that point. Part of performance is to have RAM that will allow yuo to push that FSB higher when you have that low multi CPU. A divider will work, but will decrease performance! And wasn't the initial thought to increase performance?

Also, in your own post, you first state that you don't buy RAM to be able to increase your FSB and then state that you need high-speed RAM so you can increase your FSB. This is contradicting. In my opinion, it does NOT matter what the multi of the CPU is. In either case, you're better off buying faster RAM so you can push that FSB higher with RAM on a favorable divider and get the best performance. Obviously, at some point price comes into play....
I totally respect Chozart's opinion as a seasoned OCer but, unless you're running 1/1 (DDR 533) this arguement doesn't really hold much water. (Beyond the fact that he pretty much says that he agrees with me in principle.) It feels more along the lines of clinging to an outdated dogma of times prior to greater than 1:1 dividers. His answer suggests that a lower multiplier chip IS PREFERRABLE over a higher multi simply because it holds ram speeds at higher Mhz @ 1:1, which I agree, is the best performance divider Mhz to MHz. HOWEVER, dividers above it (3:2 etc) still provide more raw performance to overcome the slight efficiency loss of non-1:1 ratios.

I don't have HARD Intel based numbers to prove this.... yet. AMD results have and will agree exactly with what I say, but that will fall on deaf ears here. I will, as soon as, I have time to stop worrying about some personal matters I have pressing me at the moment and get my Conroe up and
running.

I digress a bit...

Chozart claims that memory dividers are a big hit on performance.

Kind of...

If you drop from a 1:1 down to 4:5 (DDR 433) I agree, that you WILL see a performance loss from both a considerable loss of bandwidth and a slight reduction from not being 1:1. However, on dividers greater than 1:1, you'll gain more bandwidth than you lose from being non-1:1. This will all be proven in time... Given that so many of us are using E6600's it appears that DDR1000 will be best done on the 3:2 (DDR800) divider for a DDR1080 at 360FSB.

Now, were you to claim that anything greater than 1:1 provides no benefit I say you're CRAZY. Reason being? I think it's VERY safe to say that technology companies are trying to appeal to the mass market. The Average Joe. Not, Joe Overclocker. Joe Overclocker is probably outnumbered 100:1 by Average Joe and is a niche market. Would Intel and AMD invest millions and millions of dollars to leap to a memory that's capable of WAY WAY beyond stock FSB speeds (DDR 533 and DDR400) if there WERE NO benefit from doing larger than 1:1 dividers? I'm not an economist, nor a businessman, but I DON'T THINK SO. ESPECIALLY, since they are sacrificing super tight timings like 2-2-2-5-(1T) 2x1 gig sticks for insanely loose ones like 4-4-4-12-(2T) at 667Mhz that is regularly seen in current desktops.

I've gotten myself lost in a myriads of reasons why I feel I'm right and it has made this one LONG post. I feel that your responses should guide the rest of my posts and save us all time. So... rebuttle?

EDIT: I agree, pricing does have a considerable effect here. DDR800 is priced much better than DDR1000 sticks. Sadly, that's not the issue I'm talking about above.
Raptor Raper
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Something with transistors FOXCONN Boodrage -> eVGA classified e760 GTX 480 / HD6850@1090/1200 3x2 gig G Skill Trident DDR2000 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x128GB Crucial C300 Sumsung SATA DVD-RW 64 bit Windows 7 Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft curve Tagan ITZ 800W DD Torture Rack Diamondback 
  hide details  
Reply
Raptor Raper
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Something with transistors FOXCONN Boodrage -> eVGA classified e760 GTX 480 / HD6850@1090/1200 3x2 gig G Skill Trident DDR2000 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x128GB Crucial C300 Sumsung SATA DVD-RW 64 bit Windows 7 Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft curve Tagan ITZ 800W DD Torture Rack Diamondback 
  hide details  
Reply
post #33 of 37
Well... a RAM Favorable divider will work, but with the high FSBs that are hit with the Core 2 Duo, it's often hard to do so (I am talking more from an Intel point of view). Assuming you have DDR2 800 RAM (the majority of Core 2 Duo owners I would say), at a not unreasonable FSB of 400MHz it will run at stock at a 1:1 divider, and at DDR2 1000 speeds at a 4:5 divider, close to the max of good DDR2 800 RAM. With an FSB over 400, you probably have to get back on 1:1.

Ok... off running benchies... LOL

Here we are:

CPU = 3.0GHz, FSB = 333MHz, RAM on 1:1 divider, 2.1V
SuperPi 1MB = 17.047 seconds; 3DMark06 CPU Score = 2,617

CPU = 3.0GHz, FSB = 333MHz, RAM on 2:3 divider, 2.2V
SuperPi 1MB = 16.734 seconds; 3DMark06 CPU Score = 2,636

A significant difference in SuperPi scores, which highly rely on RAM.... See attachments.

    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 37
It seems we're more in agreement that we thought.
Raptor Raper
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Something with transistors FOXCONN Boodrage -> eVGA classified e760 GTX 480 / HD6850@1090/1200 3x2 gig G Skill Trident DDR2000 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x128GB Crucial C300 Sumsung SATA DVD-RW 64 bit Windows 7 Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft curve Tagan ITZ 800W DD Torture Rack Diamondback 
  hide details  
Reply
Raptor Raper
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Something with transistors FOXCONN Boodrage -> eVGA classified e760 GTX 480 / HD6850@1090/1200 3x2 gig G Skill Trident DDR2000 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x128GB Crucial C300 Sumsung SATA DVD-RW 64 bit Windows 7 Samsung 245BW 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft curve Tagan ITZ 800W DD Torture Rack Diamondback 
  hide details  
Reply
post #35 of 37
hahahahaha yeah.. maybe just confusing each other

What I meant to say is that in practice, you won't see the RAM friendly dividers that often, since the FSB is cranked up so high, esp. with E6300's...
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
post #36 of 37
Thread Starter 
so spending the extra money on nice ram might be worth it? that way i can crank the ram as high as she'll go, and then put a divider on to adjest when my CPU's FSB isn't quite that high? (ie RAM friendly divider)
I'm looking at the supertalent DDR2 800's apparently they will clock to almost 1200... at tight timings
Brrrrrrrr...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 @ 5500GHz Asus P5K Prem. Black Pearl eVGA 8800GT SC 512Mb 2x2Gb OCZ ReaperX 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x250Gb + 1x1Tb Seagate Perps in RAID0 Samsung Sata DVD-RW Vista Business x64 2 x 22" LG Flatron's 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech UltraX OCZ GameXtreme 700W Lian Li PC65 Black (Modded) Logitech G7 Carbon 
Mouse Pad
Glossy School Thing 
  hide details  
Reply
Brrrrrrrr...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8600 @ 5500GHz Asus P5K Prem. Black Pearl eVGA 8800GT SC 512Mb 2x2Gb OCZ ReaperX 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x250Gb + 1x1Tb Seagate Perps in RAID0 Samsung Sata DVD-RW Vista Business x64 2 x 22" LG Flatron's 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech UltraX OCZ GameXtreme 700W Lian Li PC65 Black (Modded) Logitech G7 Carbon 
Mouse Pad
Glossy School Thing 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 37
Good quality RAM is definately worth it.

However, it's up to you whether a few tenths of a second on SuperPi is worth it. As you can see by the 3DMark06 CPU scores, the impact is not the same on every application.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
E8400 @ 3.8 GHz DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2R eVGA 8400GS 2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 (single stick) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
250GB WD SATA None Windows XP Pro 32-bit HP Pavilion f1703 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
N/A Corsair HX520 Coolermaster Cavalier N/A 
Mouse Pad
N/A 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel - General
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel - General › More questions